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2/5 Awkward SPR on the turn in big hand, how to size? 2/5 Awkward SPR on the turn in big hand, how to size?

07-17-2018 , 04:12 AM
Lets just exploit our villain and get big money in on the turn. Make a min raise at the bare minimum, he's never folding an overpair to a min raise.

Completely disagree that clubs won't kill action on the rivet. Best chance to win more $ is to put more money in now.
2/5 Awkward SPR on the turn in big hand, how to size? Quote
07-17-2018 , 07:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodybuilder32
Lets just exploit our villain and get big money in on the turn. Make a min raise at the bare minimum, he's never folding an overpair to a min raise.

Completely disagree that clubs won't kill action on the rivet. Best chance to win more $ is to put more money in now.
Min raising the turn accomplishes two things:
1) He'll surely check to us on the river, or make a small blocker bet on the river with the intention of folding to a raise.
2) He might find a hero fold to a big river bet.

By flatting turn, we allow villain to barrel big on the river, to the point where he pot commits himself into calling it off.

And the probability that a club hits the river is less than 25%. Rather than being scared of all the things that could happen, let's focus on the things that are likely to happen.
2/5 Awkward SPR on the turn in big hand, how to size? Quote
07-17-2018 , 07:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkesDave
I agree with a flat on turn but I'm taking my time before I decide to call. I want to Hollywood that moment of doubt. Maybe even get the clock called on me.

I'm an A-hole, but I want to make money.
That would work on me, whether I´m in the hand or not.
Stuff like that is what tilts me extremely.
2/5 Awkward SPR on the turn in big hand, how to size? Quote
07-17-2018 , 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
Preflop is okay given that there's another caller and we might be able to go multiway. I'd fold pre if there were no other callers though.

Flop we can make an argument for raising, as we might raise some straight draws and weak pairs too. But calling is also fine. It depends how you construct your ranges and how you think villain might react.

Turn is a clear flat as played and it's not even close. We're never raising straight draws or top pair hands on the turn, so we're just incredibly imbalanced and face up when we raise the turn. Being in position makes this an easy call.

And who says we can't get stacks in on the river? We can easily jam $800 into a $700 pot on the river. Villain will often assume that we missed our straight and he will hero call us with a 1pr hand.

For example, let's say that river is a K and villain has JJ. He checks to us and we jam for 1.1x the pot. He's going to x/c this a lot, as he never thinks we rivered the King here.
Again, agree in general. But to me V was not the average 2/5 player and may not have seen it as much a 1.1x stab into a missed draw. I'm sure you guys are right against the average V, I felt like this guy was playing above his roll at 1/2 and needed to have TP to play for stacks, I was very surprised when he folded top pair to the LAG. Even TPNK is often good against that guy. I'll keep this in mind though and see if it works next time (although these sorts of Vs are rare so I may not be in this spot again for several months).
2/5 Awkward SPR on the turn in big hand, how to size? Quote
07-17-2018 , 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodybuilder32
Lets just exploit our villain and get big money in on the turn. Make a min raise at the bare minimum, he's never folding an overpair to a min raise.

Completely disagree that clubs won't kill action on the rivet. Best chance to win more $ is to put more money in now.
This was much of my reasoning. Let him make a huge mistake now which I felt he was at least 75% (no way to really know) to play for stacks with the over pair rather than giving him a chance to not like the river and x/f or b/f.
2/5 Awkward SPR on the turn in big hand, how to size? Quote
07-17-2018 , 11:18 AM
Thanks all for feedback, 10 is enough, I get the message! Final tally:
Flat: 6
Raise min-550: 3
Jam: 1

I do agree against an unknown V the best line is to flat and sometimes I still make the mistake of putting in a small raise OTT anyways. But with this V I really thought an adjustment was warranted. Maybe I'm wrong and I should play standard, it's hard to tell. In retrospect I think a min-ish raise is optimal in this particular spot so that the river is much harder to get away from and he calls the small raise with almost his whole range, I only fold out bluffs and I really dont think he has any bluffs unless he cbet AKc and backed into the FD.

Spoiler:
As I'm sure you suspected I jammed turn which was a huge overplay and he is 100% the only player at the table I would try that against. V made a crying call after about 10 seconds with KK and then the A hit OTR. Everyone else at the table knew I had a set and couldn't believe he called off that light. I actually made the Eastgate face because I kind of thought he may have had AA after he called relatively easily. Even though it worked out this time, there really weren't as many scare cards as I thought. I'm sure he was folding to my river jam if I flat OTT. Maybe I can get $250-ish after he checks. But had I already min raised and created a huge pot I'd only have ~500 left and might be able to get the cry call again.
2/5 Awkward SPR on the turn in big hand, how to size? Quote
07-17-2018 , 01:02 PM
Nice hand.

I agree that villain wasn't going to put anymore money in on the river once the Ace comes.
2/5 Awkward SPR on the turn in big hand, how to size? Quote
07-17-2018 , 08:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
Nice hand.

I agree that villain wasn't going to put anymore money in on the river once the Ace comes.
Thanks, V immediately asked if I had an Ace when it hit. He legit thought his hand was good there. Poker isn't dead quite yet.
2/5 Awkward SPR on the turn in big hand, how to size? Quote
07-17-2018 , 09:04 PM
Post mortem on the hand should make a lot of folks re-think their flat-call strategy. V had exactly what the Hero thought he had. Remember, we originally put his range as overpairs, TPTk, and sets.

I'm not so sure that the ace on the end killed our action. I think our action had a good chance of being dead anyway. Many, of course not all, but many villains will check/call their 1 pair hands on the river, especially very strong 1 pair hands.

that leaves us to get one more bet on the river. While raising the turn gives us the opportunity to get two bets. And if we're right about V's range, and by all indications we are, then we shouldn't expect to get zero bets very often.
2/5 Awkward SPR on the turn in big hand, how to size? Quote
07-18-2018 , 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingOwl
Post mortem on the hand should make a lot of folks re-think their flat-call strategy. V had exactly what the Hero thought he had. Remember, we originally put his range as overpairs, TPTk, and sets.

I'm not so sure that the ace on the end killed our action. I think our action had a good chance of being dead anyway. Many, of course not all, but many villains will check/call their 1 pair hands on the river, especially very strong 1 pair hands.

that leaves us to get one more bet on the river. While raising the turn gives us the opportunity to get two bets. And if we're right about V's range, and by all indications we are, then we shouldn't expect to get zero bets very often.
Also a very valid point. Took it for granted that V was triple barreling safe rivers but there is a real chance even a non scare card goes x/c OTR in which case I prob only bet 500 or so. Going to stick with smaller turn raise when I have this read and see how that goes.
2/5 Awkward SPR on the turn in big hand, how to size? Quote

      
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