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2/5,AQs 3 bet pot OOP 2/5,AQs 3 bet pot OOP

08-13-2014 , 06:20 AM
2/5 9-handed table.hero just moved to this new table and sat down.3 limpers,BT(villian) raises to $35,hero has AhQh in sb and 3bet to $100,everyone folds to BT who calls.Hero has $1k and villian $700.
flop($210): Js 9s 6h hero?
Preflop: 3bet,flat and fold. which line is better?
Flop: At this point,cbet(betsizing?) Or c/f?
2/5,AQs 3 bet pot OOP Quote
08-13-2014 , 07:05 AM
If I had 3 bet out of position, I would never check/fold. As played, I would lead flop $125-150 and probably fold if he raises. What would you bet here with AA? I wouldn't expect the villain to fold AA or KK on this flop but would fold a lot of his three bet calling range like AK, 1010, and maybe even QQ with our strong line.

I would just call the raise a lot of times out of position instead of 3 betting. Check/fold when I miss the flop. I think it is lower variance than playing a bloated pot out of position. I like the 3 bet preflop better but you are going to be in a tough/high variance spot after most flops.

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Last edited by rawdawg_7; 08-13-2014 at 07:13 AM.
2/5,AQs 3 bet pot OOP Quote
08-13-2014 , 07:10 AM
The 3bet pf was good. I'd b/f the flop. He likely missed as well and you'll get the fold. If he calls, you can be confident you're beat and can shut down.
2/5,AQs 3 bet pot OOP Quote
08-13-2014 , 07:32 AM
I wouldn't squeeze in this spot, just isn't enough dead $ in the pot but if I did I would make it $80-$85 so I could at least double and maybe triple.
With no info/profile on villain I would think the $35 raise after a couple of limpers would indicate a strong range
Since most live rec players would raise based on hand strength and will most times give you AK in a 3/bet pot.
AP
I would bet/fold $110-125, most likely shut down if called since by that time pot would be kinda bloated and you'll have less FE in a bloated pot.
2/5,AQs 3 bet pot OOP Quote
08-13-2014 , 07:32 AM
"I would not****"
2/5,AQs 3 bet pot OOP Quote
08-13-2014 , 08:16 AM
I'd cbet/fold ~2/3 pot OTF. V called $65 with ESS at $700 so w/o any other info I'd weight his range more toward a pp rather SCs, broadways, etc. He will likely fold TT/88/AK.

Pre - new to the table and oop I tend to play more passively early on. Besides, our hand has strong equity vs. a typical BTN raising range.
2/5,AQs 3 bet pot OOP Quote
08-13-2014 , 08:51 AM
We need more information here. How bad are the limpers? How wide is Villain's $35 BTN raising range over 3 limps?

If Villain's $35 BTN raising range over 3 limps is fairly tight, there is a lot more value in flatting AQs from the blinds instead of 3betting AQs from the blinds.

If I were going to 3bet for value (something that I would probably not do against a total random), I would prefer to 3bet to $115-$120 instead of just $100 because we will be OOP postflop.

As played, I would probably check and re-evaluate this flop if I thought Villain had a wide $35 BTN iso-raising range over 3 limps (if I didn't believe this, I would never have 3bet preflop anyway).
2/5,AQs 3 bet pot OOP Quote
08-13-2014 , 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
The 3bet pf was good. I'd b/f the flop. He likely missed as well and you'll get the fold. If he calls, you can be confident you're beat and can shut down.
Why is the 3bet good? I don't understand how we can categorize this as a good 3bet until we have more information on Villain's BTN raising range over 3 limps and how bad the limpers are.
2/5,AQs 3 bet pot OOP Quote
08-13-2014 , 08:58 AM
FWIW, a $35 BTN raising range over 3 limps will often be a stronger range than a $15-$20 BTN raise when it was folded around to the BTN.
2/5,AQs 3 bet pot OOP Quote
08-13-2014 , 08:59 AM
As ATsai said we need a description on bu; 3! Because "well hey it's standard And Aqhh is a good hand!!" Is very narrow minded.

As played, This appears to be a "one and done" cbet spot but it really depends a lot of villain description to be sure. I might unload the clip if I cbet and the turn is a non connecting heart or maybe a king occasionally, but that would be the only way.
2/5,AQs 3 bet pot OOP Quote
08-13-2014 , 10:19 AM
hero bet $125 and villian calls.
Turn($450):Th Hero shoves.
How do you think guys?Do you go c/c knowing that T might hit his flop calling range?This is probably the best card for both hero and villian.

Last edited by maplestar; 08-13-2014 at 10:26 AM.
2/5,AQs 3 bet pot OOP Quote
08-13-2014 , 10:34 AM
Wouldn't 3bet, wouldn't cbet, but as played yes shove turn even though he's folding close to never. Shouldn't have gotten there this way though.
2/5,AQs 3 bet pot OOP Quote
08-13-2014 , 04:43 PM
STD to me would be 3 bet but not so large. Think of what you want to accomplish THEN think of the betsize to do the job. Take into acct. how many limpers and how strong you figure the avg. 35 bet to be.

Also, what does the villain look like? 29 year old straight laced conservative polo shirt guy with short hair cut? 35 might be a very strong hand for this type of villain. YOunger with baseball hat backwards chewing gum fast might suggest an entirely different range.

Then cbetting half pot and evaluating his reaction would be std as well, but in this case his call of $100 forces him to have too strong of range now, so we have dug ourselves a hole that will be a bit tough to navigate out of.
2/5,AQs 3 bet pot OOP Quote
08-13-2014 , 10:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATsai

As played, I would probably check and re-evaluate this flop if I thought Villain had a wide $35 BTN iso-raising range over 3 limps (if I didn't believe this, I would never have 3bet preflop anyway).
I'm just curious since you are the only one advocating a check here, what would you do if V bet 2/3rd's the pot in this situation? I assume if it's checked around on the flop you are betting the turn?
2/5,AQs 3 bet pot OOP Quote
08-14-2014 , 12:28 AM
3bet pre is pretty spewy. You need really good reads on villain and he has to either raise light in that spot often or call and play very weak tight post flop (set mining JJ for ex). Check fold flop. His range to call should be pretty strong, like AQ+, 99+. AQ+ is probably the only hands that are folding flop a high % of the time but you block AQ+
2/5,AQs 3 bet pot OOP Quote
08-14-2014 , 01:47 AM
I flat pre. It's full ring and you don't know how wide he's raising on the button or what his normal sizing is.

As played, it's ok. But you should know that it's high variance and you have close to zero fold equity
2/5,AQs 3 bet pot OOP Quote

      
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