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2/5 Am I a Donkey being walked? 2/5 Am I a Donkey being walked?

06-28-2015 , 09:26 PM
I just sat down at the game only about 2 hours prior to this hand. Have been losing nearly every pot I have entered/opened so it may seem like I am a fish.... maybe I am .....

Hero has 150bbs, I have topped off twice already. I feel like the table may feel like they can push me around a little bit, but I'm prepared to actually play poker (not playing scared even though I have a 1/2 bankroll and was taking a shot at 2/5) Villain is to my immediate right and seems like a TAG player with about $2.5k in front. Havnt seen him showdown

EP limps, LP limps, Villain in HJ makes it $35, Hero on Button has AK I have 3 bet Villain once before in the same orbit and he folded. I elected to call and play my hand tricky. Blinds fold, EP calls, LP folds.

FLOP ($115 in pot)

K 5 9

EP checks, Villain bets $60, Hero Calls, EP folds

TURN ($235 in pot)

5


Villain checks, Hero bets $110, Villain calls

RIVER ($455 in pot)

3


Villain checks, Hero bets $215 leaving about $500 back, Villain calls


Is this a standard line even though I dont have a club? Or should I be checking back the turn or river? I felt like I was getting value out of KQ-K10 with a club or might have been getting freerolled by AK*


Spoiler:
Villain had Q 10.......

Last edited by turbo-travis; 06-28-2015 at 09:34 PM.
2/5 Am I a Donkey being walked? Quote
06-28-2015 , 09:53 PM
I think not 3-betting pre when V has shown an ability to fold to 3-bets is a bit of a leak, but I don't hate it given our position. Probably 3-betting with AK from the sb much more often.

OTF V is making a standard-ish c-bet, though its on the smaller side. Any history about his c-bet sizing? If he leads turn again I would think he has mostly nutted hands in his range, if he checks I would lean more towards AcKx/Qx, maybe KxQc. Hard to imagine a TAG opening KJ-9, but I guess he was in the HJ.

When he checks the turn I am betting 100% of the time. Its our last change to get value from a naked ace of clubs and KxQc/Jc.

Not a fan of the river bet. At this point the part of Vs range we were trying to get value from completely missed and can't call another bet. Only getting called by made flushes and turned FH. We do have some show down value, so I'm fine checking.
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06-28-2015 , 09:58 PM
Villain normally bets $60 OTF into a heads up pot (2/3 pot) so yeah the sizing was a little bit small on this flop. Not sure how to process that into anything though... I mean what does that normally mean when they decided to bet slightly less when a losing player is in the pot (me)
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06-28-2015 , 10:00 PM
Everything looks OK until river. Villain's flop bet is a standard c-bet and could be just about anything. Betting turn when he checks is fine, a lot of the time this pattern means he has a single big club or AK also. If villain is decent I'm checking this back a lot on river because better isn't folding and worse isn't calling.
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06-28-2015 , 10:04 PM
I must be playing poker wrong, either that or I'm so used to playing 1/2 that I feel like there is still plenty of value to be made on the river..... I guess that's the biggest difference between 1/2 and 2/5 maybe.
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06-29-2015 , 01:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo-travis
Villain normally bets $60 OTF into a heads up pot (2/3 pot) so yeah the sizing was a little bit small on this flop. Not sure how to process that into anything though... I mean what does that normally mean when they decided to bet slightly less when a losing player is in the pot (me)
Totally V dependent and I think it generally has more to do with how draw heavy a flop is. Something like K82 rainbow is a lot less scary than 89Kcc for TPTK. The former might merit a half psb since the hands we beat that we want calls from have very little equity; the latter may merit 2/3-1x psb because there are a lot of draw heavy hands with good equity.
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06-29-2015 , 01:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo-travis
I must be playing poker wrong, either that or I'm so used to playing 1/2 that I feel like there is still plenty of value to be made on the river..... I guess that's the biggest difference between 1/2 and 2/5 maybe.
Ranges tend to be a lot tighter even for the very bad players. You aren't going to get snapped off by second pair no kicker when you bet/bet/bet a flopped set.
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06-29-2015 , 02:04 AM
Think about the way the Villain played his hand. He played it as a bluff-catcher since you have the nuts in your range and you were being very aggressive.

I would have played your hand as a bluff-catcher, and would not have bet the turn or river -- for the exact same reason that the Villain was smart enough not to barrel his hand.

From your perspective: Have you seen him open-raising a bunch of off-suit broadway hands? Have you been folding to lots of flop bets? Is there any reason to assume that you're getting bluffed on the flop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo-travis
Villain normally bets $60 OTF into a heads up pot (2/3 pot) so yeah the sizing was a little bit small on this flop. Not sure how to process that into anything though... I mean what does that normally mean when they decided to bet slightly less when a losing player is in the pot (me)
When people either don't bet, or bet less than normal most people seem to think it means they have a weakish medium strength hand. In my experience the opposite is true; it polarizes their range. They have either the nuts, or air. Once he calls your turn bet, I think you can rule out air.
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06-29-2015 , 04:54 AM
Sorry you lost, but I actually like your riverbet. I reckon you nearly always have the best hand and he can surely bluff catch with Kx or even worse, thinking you missed the flush.
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06-29-2015 , 07:16 AM
Turn bet is absolutely mandatory. You can get value from worse and fold out hands that have good equity against you like pocket pairs with a club. River is probably a little too thin, you are really targeting only KQ and KJ. Overall though the villain played his hand terribly and got lucky when you showed up with a hand and played it strong. Generally playing the second nuts as a bluff catcher will lose tons of value.
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06-29-2015 , 07:19 AM
Hand is well played. You went for thin value on the river. It's too bad that you ran into the top of his range.

I would only check this river back if I thought that V was capable/has demonstrated that he will bluff raise on the river.
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06-29-2015 , 09:33 AM
Excellent river bet. After he x/c turn it's impossible to put him on a flush. He played it bad imo, not you. You have to go for value here especially if you're not 3! Pre
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06-29-2015 , 09:48 AM
Postflop is very good, but preflop is a big mistake.
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06-29-2015 , 09:56 AM
Three betting AK on the button is fun, so, do that. Electing to play a hand tricky when you're taking a shot at a higher limit doesn't sound like a great plan.
River bet: monotone flop, and the board is paired. It's pretty thin to go for value. I'd probably just show this down against most Vs, esp ones described as tight aggressive. He raised pre, bet flop, called turn. He's looking at same board as you. Hard to think you can get called by worse here.
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06-29-2015 , 10:25 AM
IMO you should only go for only 1 street of value when V turns over 'control' of the hand to you. He did this on the Turn so IMO I am either betting Turn and taking a showdown or checking Turn and 'maybe' calling a non-flush River.

You indicated that these guys were 'pushing you around' and then a guy gives you control of the betting all of a sudden here? I would've felt better about my hand if he c/r me on the Turn than flatting.

Granted I don't like this spot in either case as he can c/r with Ac (even Kc) on Turn and you priced him into the River with a 3 to 1 call based on your Turn bet sizing .. with any 'higher' club holding.

Sounds like they had your number a bit .. and how does he not show a hand in 2 hours when he feels comfortable opening with QTs?

I know how you (could) feel playing 'up' when your regular game is 1/2 (due to geography for me) but if you feel off your game or uncomfortable, then play stronger not weaker in these spots PF.

Like I said, I think you are asking too much for 2 streets of value here. Either take the value from the Turn (preferred) or wait until you are sure a 4-flush missed the River. Based on your image of yourself to these guys, what are they going to call 2 streets of value with here that you beat?

Not trying to be too hard on you, but how would you have played this at 1-2? GL
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