V(SB, 1500): later 20s India. He likes action, straddles and loose but he knows what's going on. Basically, he calls with any two cards. I saw him raise with Q6off limp call with A6off. He seems play there every week. I plays there once or twice a month and I see him every time.

I raised to 20 with AcKh. tight female player called, tight short stack called and V called in small blind.

Flop(85) K92 all spades.

Checks around.

I usually bet with top pair on this type board, but decided to check to see what tight female player and short stack do.

Turn(85): 9

V bets 50, I called and short stack called.

River(235):9

V bets 150, Hero raised to 400,short stack folded and V re-raised to 1k. It's spread limit. 600 max raise. Hero ??

The river raise you made was a mistake. What worse hands can call your raise? With 3 nines on the board even a nut flush is an easy fold. Villain is going to have a good idea where he stands and can call if he has a king also, raise with his 9X and make some bluff raises.

For the most part I would fold here. But against a very aggro or spewy villain I would make this call sometimes. It's very possible for villain to have the 9 and he can figure you for very 9x or other hands better then Kx. This is a situation where he can be bluff reraising.

He has too much 9x for us to profitably raise river here.

As played, even if he's moving in with all of his kings, we are actually in petty bad shape. We have 32% pot equity (is this the right term here?). Basically, we need to be getting 2:1 to call, even if he's always moving in with a king.

Does not compute. Guy is a fish. I dont care how good someone is you just cant play any two cards, it will not work unless you're playing 3 handed and everyone is drunk af.

That being said raising the river here is kind of lunacy. I just dont ever expect someone to call with worse. Now considering how big of a fish this guy might be I would never be shocked to see a wild 3bet bluff from him, and I'm never folding what is quantitively the 2nd nuts to a 1 outer vs a fish, but just dont go around raising rivers in "impossible to call" scenarios.

Your flop line is also absolutely terrible. Your goal isnt to just let things happen. What did you learn from their check? What would have changed if they had bet? Unless your plan was to fold if one of them got raised by the other then you've learned nothing, given away a free card to lose the hand and missed out on tons of value from their draws. You have a decent hand. Chances are they have a garbage hand. Make some money. You can alter your plan *after* this fact if something drastic happens.

Your flop line is also absolutely terrible. Your goal isnt to just let things happen. What did you learn from their check? What would have changed if they had bet? Unless your plan was to fold if one of them got raised by the other then you've learned nothing, given away a free card to lose the hand and missed out on tons of value from their draws. You have a decent hand. Chances are they have a garbage hand. Make some money. You can alter your plan *after* this fact if something drastic happens.

This is terrible advice. A monotone board like this multi way you just dont have the equity to start maximizing the amount of money you put into the pot.

OP, post positions next time if possible.

Flop x is standard and definitely best four ways OOP on a monotone flop. We’re not trying to be balanced per say, but it’s always nice to have strong hands when our opponent stabs and it makes things easier for our entire range when we know we’re protected.

It’s a little bit results oriented to hate raising here on the river IMO- but I agree just calling is best. This V may shrug bluff-catch worse for that price or even spazz bluff raise.

AP obv call because of aforementioned spazz bluff raise, us chopping at a high frequency, and great pot odds, and be grateful that it’s spread limit if V has quads.

Agree with GBRO. You’re overestimating how well TPTK is doing 4 ways here on a monotone flop. We don’t have a spade as well which is terrible this multi-way. Lots of bad run outs if we get called, even if we’re ahead. Sure, our hand is vulnerable—- but against three villains, who are likely calling wide pre- there’s a lot of flushes out there. We’re blocking their top pair type hands that will pay us off multiple streets, so I’d much rather have AA if I’m betting.

On top of that, even if our opponents aren’t exploiting us at all- putting all of our strong hands into our betting range is inherently problematic this multi-way because it’ll be very difficult to continue vs aggression with our checking range. We’ll be in a lot of low EV spots in that part of the game tree.

River is a fold.

I would just flat the river, he's only calling a raise to chop, or raising with quads ainec at all.

4 people chasing a flush is a bad thing?

If you’d like- I can play around with this spot and explain it further with combinatorics etc..

but the odds one of our villains have a flush when they continue for multiple streets is much higher than you probably think it is. People love calling suited cards pre. Yes, a lot of that misses here but V’s will just fold the clubs, diamonds, heart variety that to a bet.

So that leaves us with spades which flop a flush. Yes, HU it’s quite unlikely but vs 3 villains, some of which are in the blinds— there’s a plethora of available flushes that we’re effectively drawing dead against.

You’re more so thinking about how good our hand is right now I’m assuming but our opponents will just fold if they don’t have top pair, which we block, or a spade. Even if they do continue light that’s just one street of value that we could have got on a brick turn.

If we check around and the turn is a spade, it’s not a big deal because we can just x/f.

Also, as I said previously- us having a king and there being a K on the board drastically cuts down on the Kx combos the field will have. AA is a much better candidate to c-bet here with in this situation.

Bloating the pot 4 ways OOP on a monotone flop, without at least an overpair, is almost always a bad idea.

A 3 - A J. All three of the villains could have that.

6 4 - Q 10. All three of the villains could have that.

5 4 - Q J. All three of our villains could have that.

It’s not unlikely to run into a flopped flush here.

Navigating turns and rivers is gonna be terrible vs a continuing range that has multiples of the flush combos we have.

It amuses me when people are like “bet, and then fold when raised” every hand without taking into account how every villains range interacts with the board.

I'll be honest, I'm not saying it's some slam dunk cbet. But villains can also have J7o, so I'm not gonna get all MUBSy over flopped flushes.

It’s not MUBSY. Did you even read what I wrote?

Yes, they have a lot more trash here than they do flopped flushes. A very high % of their trash isn’t going to call a normal sized bet here so we completely discount all of that.

I was strictly referring to their continuing range vs. a bet.

What is a MUBSY?

MUB = monsters under bed or worrying about V having better when that’s unlikely.

has nothing to do with this hand.

I get the sentiment though because it’s kind of hard to understand why unless you’ve messed around with Flopzilla, Equilab, or the equivalent a good amount.

I tried to lay it out but whatever.

I just think your ranges are completely off. Do you play low limit live? J7o with a Jack of spades is 100% in their continuing range. You think they called a raise preflop with garbage just to fold a garbage draw? Backdoor straight draw, backdoor trips draw. It's live.

I understand all of that is in their continuing range. But as you said, those hands are live vs. us.

Them having hands like J7o with the J or 7 of spades also is an indication of how many suited hands each of them will have. Those suited cards either completely whiff or flop a flush. We’re against 3 villains. You’re oblivious as to how many flopped flushes we’re up against which is why I tried to explain it a little more clearly. It sounds like you’re not willing to listen because you don’t want to be MUBsy or take a different approach in this spot than you have been.

We’re also basically drawing dead vs all of those combos. So we have to weight that into our decision making.

This is the logic that I was trying to critique initially:

It’s really not that simple and regardless of what stakes you play and how fishy your opponents are you’ll probably find it beneficial/ need to do a lot of off the table work to see why. Just trying to help man.

Nothing completely whiffs in a live game. I just think you're leaving money on the table if you only bet when you arent drawing dead.

That’s fair. It misses the point completely but I get it. I’m interested in taking the highest EV option. Many don’t care too or it’s not worth their while to learn how to potentially do that because that would be too much work.

Four ways it’s very rarely clear cut what that is regardless of how bad your villains are. That’s all.

It’s less about this spot in a vacuum and more so the thought process that adds up long term.

Who says he's in a vacuum? The read is 1 loose donk and 2 nits. You tell me how often nits show up with suited connectors and how often donks show up with flopped flushes?

A live player isnt going to flat a cbet with a 6 high flush. If we bet and 2 people call we can instantly put one of them on a draw and likely the other one too, a much better draw. If we get raised at any point we fold and lose 10BB's. But if they just flat, heck we might be winning 50BB's on average if the board is kind.

Just look at the runnout, even without results it's pretty obvious that 3/4 of them did NOT flop a flush. I dont need hindsight here to predict this would happen.

That’s not a problem if you’re not being exploited. If you have a read that your opponents literally never bluff you have no incentive to check strong hands. Always bet them and you can just fold most of your weak checking range. Always take the highest EV line.

The problem with having a weak checking range is only when you know your opponent is very aggressive, giving you incentive to slowplay, or when you don’t know their strategy.

Anyway, I agree with the flop check. The turn will define our hand much better. We don’t need to be building a pot with a hand that is either currently drawing very thin or at best is garbage on >1/3 of runouts.

If all opponents were predictable and passive Id consider a small bet. $25 or something can fold hands that have high equity, like 8s7h, while not narrowing ranges much. If we won’t get bluff raised and will be allowed to showdown on bad runouts then betting is best IMO.