2/5 game,. been dominated by a crazy fish who everyone has been vying to catch. Fish has just busted for second time and off getting more cash, so been a 10 min lull in standard playing format.

Hero: late 20's white guy, played solid TAG style so far. Bought in for 500 and now sat with 1700.
V1 is early 30s, middle eastern descent, seems a bit fishy but not too bad, slightly on the loose gambly side. Stack about 800.
V2 is young 20s white guy baseball cap, long scruffy hair and scruffy goatee beard, looks like a bit of a tool TBH, get impression he plays online a fair amount. Not been involved in many hands. Stack around 400.

Hero: AK

All fold, Hero on BTN raises to 15, V1 in SB calls, V2 in BB calls

Pot: 45
Flop: A36
V1 checks, V2 checks, Hero bets 30, V1 cals, V2 re-raises to 85, Hero...

raise to $185, fold to push. $400 effective stacks make this difficult to call with what is likely the best hand, as there are many dangerous turns, and villain now has the initiative. Given table dynamics with a donator taking a break, I could also find a fold and wait for a better spot.

raise to $185/fold > fold >>>call

Assuming V1 folds, If we raise to 185 and get shoved by V2 we will be getting about 3.5/1 (~200 to win ~700). Seems like a tough line to take when planning to fold.

Agree with mjtandy that 3b/folding this flop is bad. Any read on what sb is going to do? I probably call in game, almost never raise, and occasionally fold given the right history/reads.

You have tons of equity against anything but a set. Your K makes it less likely someone has spades.

It seems as if V2 is a poser making a play. So I think folding here is bad and that would include folding to a 4-bet. So for all those reasons, I think 3-bet/fold is wrong.

I would probably call and fold if either opponent moves in on the turn. I.e. I don't agree that calling gets you pot committed. I don't think calling increases risk substantially. Folding to a shove on the turn means you'll be releasing the best hand a significant part of the time, but stations don't make money at this game, as far as I know.

^ V1 has 800.

He does not have a lot of value combos. Me personally I would 3 bet or fold everything pre that beats AK on that board. I kind of like call and shove turn if flush misses. Also just calling saves money if the sb hit a set. think he is actually more likely to have the big hand here.

Don't like putting in 185 here with plan to fold

He has all sorts of semi bluffs in his range here.
I'd call the flop and plan to cram any non spade turn card before I'd raise/fold.

I also think that raise/folding is pretty terrible given that he only has about 12 value combos here, and he has at least 10 semi-bluffs. We also have equity against his entire range. And we'd be getting at least 3:1 depending on the 3bet sizing that we use. 3bet/folding seems spewy bordering on terrible.

I think flatting ~= folding >>>>>>> 3bet/folding.

OP, why do you get the impression Villain plays online?

Folks, we've got top top in an 80 bb pot and V2 just made a very small raise in a pot where the other two players have shown interest. Yes, this could be a set/2 pair, but it can also be button clicking with a worse ace or Ax of spades. Could be 45!

OP what kind of range are you assigning the BB and SB?

Playing maybe a little too tight pf (indicative of multi-tabling), young and looks a bit dirty (wouldn't be surprised if he was a big video-gamer), kinda confident in his overall plan, plus doesn't handle his chips with familiarity (not clumsy, but no tricks or fiddling).

Think the SB's range is super-wide, he's a bit of a fishy calling station - any single pairs, gutshots, middling pocket pairs, etc. And of course, could be a chance of a slowplayed set or draws, but we are ahead of about 90% of range. Overall, not too concerned.

BB's range I think is a lot tighter. The bet-sizing for me screamed of wanting a call. 85 not quite a 3x raise, and he's got 2 people (a station and Hero has aggressive winning table history) interested in the pot. Not sure he has a lone pair Aces here ever... I felt sure he has a set here at least half the time, Aces Up a quarter, and the FD another quarter.

I know it's only 55 to call, with great pot odds, but if we do call: what card are we hoping to see on the turn? When he inevitable Cbets turn, will we just fold here as TPTK still isn't strong enough in this spot?

I actually folded flop and felt pretty good about it. SB also folded behind. I said 'nice bet' and 'I think an ace was no good there' with a smile, to which he looked at me a shrugged and then proceeded to get angry at something else 30 seconds later which gave credence to my read that he definitely had a set.

Eh against some random player, I call to see what happens on the turn. I agree his bet sizing is value-ish and it's stronger looking to x/r into 2 rather than 1 player. However, it's possible he is clicking buttons because you opened the btn and made a c-bet.

I would've called and evaluated.

^ Hoping to see things is pointless and especially pointless when we're hoping to see cards. It's a purely mathematical function that has nothing to do with our thought processes.

What I would EXPECT to see after I called OTF was SB to act once and then one or more of my opponents to act one or more times before I need to act again. I assign significant VALUE to that, just like I assign significant value to the hand we just flopped. Most people would say it is a very good hand.

When you have the button, you can afford to invest more than when you don't.

Think you missed my point - very few cards on the turn that improve our hand vs. his value range.

We are getting 4-1 on a call here in position. We may be behind or this guy may be clicking buttons. IMO folding here is too weak.

That happens all the time. We can't just fold every time.

Your argument about this being multi-way so his action indicates additional strength is genuine. But we become super exploitable if we rely on that too heavily. I think it's only a small minority of the people at these stakes who are experts at analyzing multi-way situations and varying their strategy on the fly. This might just be a "oh, yeah, I remember, try a check raise in these situations" moment.

It could be a lot of things; I think the suited ace is a huge part of his range. Why would he c/r a set, when he could donk repping an ace and maybe get raised? There's two behind him OTF.

Fold flop unless you know he's spewy multiway postflop raises are generally insanely strong

Dude, there's 190 in the middle and it costs you 55 to continue. You're going to give up on this hand at that point? Who is he, Bobby effin Hoff?

Yeah, it seems too weak to fold for an additional $55 but isn't this hand a bet/fold on every street logically speaking? What are you doing when he bets non-spade turns again? Which he will. If you're folding to a $125 turn bet, what's the point of calling flop? If you're shoving over a $125 turn bet, why not shove flop itself and deny good odds to a draw?

Completely agree. That is why I suggested raise/fold on the flop may be good. He has a very high likelihood of double-barreling if he raised the flop. A suited ace is well within his range, as is a set, 4-5, and a weaker unsuited A such as A-J trying to pick off a c-bet. On the flop, a raise will inappropriately charge him for his draws as well as better define his hand. A raise also makes it less likely that SB would come along for the ride as I rather not play this multi-way.

He is not flatting 185 with a combo draw though. It is a disaster if he has A4 spades or 45spades to raise fold.

Grunch.

Ranges: sets (6 combos), 2P (Ah6h, Ah3h), combo draws (AsXs, SCs that interact well with the 6s3s on the board), some fudge factor hands.

V: If V is an online player, he may well make this play with all of the above hands. If he's pegged you as not being willing to stack off 400 with TP, he could do it with any hand he called the PFR with.

I think I can find a reason either to fold or to call flop/eval turn.

On the fold side, most LLSNL V's aren't aggressive enough. V2 may play online, but that's not a certainty. Flop x/r into two players is strong and even if it is a combo draw, we're not that far ahead. V2 is likely to lead many turns, and we'll probably have a difficult decision. V1 is still in the hand. He probably just has a draw, but occasionally he'll have something unpleasant for us.

On the call side, if V is an online player, he might make this move with any hand he called pre with, especially if he pegs you as not stacking off with TP. V1 hasn't done anything aggressive, so I'm tentatively considering a draw his mostly likely holding.

On balance, I think I call and eval turn. Folding seems a bit too weak and it doesn't seem like a bad idea to gather more info and let our position help us make a better decision on the turn. Tentatively, I'm folding the turn to continued aggression

Glad you agree. But I don't see raise/folding as an option if he has just $400 to begin with. I mean, as rm81 pointed out, he is very likely jamming Axss over your flop 3bet thinking "oh, I has the nuts", and if you're folding to his shove there, it's a disaster. Also, factor in the times he might slowplay his set/2p after you 3bet making you think your hand is good and make you shove the turn and lose. Basically, you're only raising "to find out where you're at" which is a bad way to play in general. He's rarely folding anything but garbage aces after you 3bet. Even if he just calls, you really don't know if he could be slowplaying some hands.

So, in the end, it depends on whether you think he's draw-heavy here and can GII with AK OR just dump the hand right here. Raise/folding and calling are just bad options with these stacks. The only scenario where calling might be an option is if you think he's very bluffy and is just trying to take it away with garbage.

Some people responding are overlooking the effect of V1 and his 800 stack. Others are just writing it off "He probably has some sort of draw."

We have both of these guys covered, we have position, and we have cards that in ordinary circumstances have good value.

V2 is strong, he's repping strong, or he's confused. Maybe he accidentally threw out the wrong color chip.

i wouldn't have folded here. having the Ks helps too.

Honestly, I thought you were $400 deep. Didn't realize we were $800 or so deep here.
Def changes my flat and shove over the turn bet advice (which is now pretty terrible).