The reason I prefer to 4bet smaller (like $150) instead of larger (like $190) is:
1) It tempts villain to call with AQ, A4s, 86s, etc.
2) It gives off the illusion that we might fold to a 5bet jam preflop.
3) It gives off the illusion that villain can still 'outplay' us postflop, despite the fact that we're still going to jam 95% of flops.

Of course, if we were $1k deep, then I'd prefer a larger 4bet sizing like $200, or potentially even flat the 3bet, but that's a different story.

4b to $150-$160ish

Also fine to mix in some calls from time to time.

Do not fold.

Raising to 170 doesn't allow our opponent to make a mistake. If we plan get 460 in when he re-raises, whats the point? If V shoves over our raise its not going to be a mistake, since his likely holdings will be premiums. A shove folds out some of that premium range, unlike 170-210, and both sizings fold out marginal hands.

You won't accumulate enough info in a single session to reliably adjust.

I 4b shove, i’m not sure why we’d do anything else being <100 bbs eff

We’re oop and we don’t have a hand that typically favors getting 4b flatted, we’re so much better off realizing full fold equity by shipping vs giving a decent price for sc’s to make us look stupid post

You guys are thinking about AK 4bets incorrectly.

You dont 4b AK to fold out hands like JJ/QQ. This is a common misconception.

You 4bet bc you are pushing your range's equity vs. villains 3bet range. Ak is still ahead of a chunk of his 3b range, but it will be difficult for us to realize our equity oop without initiative. More importantly, our 4bet range (KK+,AKs) has him smoked.

He makes much much more mistakes vs. $150 than vs shove.

Yes its quite obvious we are committing when we make it $150. It doesnt matter. They still make more mistakes range vs range with this sizing.

We are stuffing any flop besides A/K high, maybe QJTr, and maybe something awful like JT9.

This game is way easier than you all make it out to be. At least with AKs vs. a chirping 20 something sitting on 5 buy ins.

Hero's appearance is around a 30 year old white guy wearing hat, t-shirt, and jeans.

Sadly, I'm about as non-descript as they come at the poker table. Safe to assume Villain has zero view of me.

I am strikingly good looking. This has nothing to do with image, reads, or poker in general...but I did want to mention it nonetheless.

I did think this was a 4bet/gii situation - and in real time, I did 4bet - but thinking about the hand afterwards I also thought it was an interesting spot for a couple reasons:

1. I 4bet to $220. I wasn't sure about my sizing. I've seen answers ranging from $150 to stuff on this one.

2. If my stack was $500 and I had AKo, in this same readless situation, I might lean to a fold. When I took a step back and thought about this, it didn't really make sense that $40 extra and having suited cards would change a situation from a fold to an all in. But perhaps poker is all at the margins and that's just all there is to it, or I'm too nitty with AKo OOP at 100bb.

I have done this before & I've done it more than once. It gets easier as you get wiser, but it's still not easy for me. However, like Mike, I prefer to have more info & hate starting at a new table with a losing image. Then again, showing the table that you are willing to GII w/o a pair has its benefits; it's just a matter of which option carries more weight.

You don't know how long V has been playing either. If he wins your stack, that may be his cue to chalk up a nice winning session.

I take it that there is NO situation [HU] where you would consider folding pre to relatively small 3! preflop?

KK is the 2nd best starting hand. AKs is slightly better than JJ.
If V only 3! with TT+, Hero has 40% equity.
If V only 3! with TT+/AK, Hero has 43.5% equity.
If V only 3! with TT+/AK, AQs, Hero has 45.6% equity.

Hero is going to need V to fold TT/JJ & with V having won so much, it's not likely he'll fold JJ pre.

I do not fold every time in this type situation, in fact I usually 4!, however I know the V.

I used to think like this but learned its simply incorrect. Its a smaller mistake here due to such low spr for sure, but still flawed thinking

rhetorical question for you. suppose we essentially min 4bet here & he calls w/89s, “putting us on AK”

If he never deposits his remaining stack otf w/o at least pairing or drawing, while we are more apt to gii regardless of flop than he is, who is coming out ahead?

It ain’t us....

It's impossible for villain to know that we have AK. We have plenty of QQ+ in our range to balance it out, so if villain is prepared to stack off with 98s on every J82r board in a 4bet pot, then he's going to be losing a tonne of money in the long run against our range.

In addition to this, if villain always puts us on AK in 4bet pots, then we should be 4betting hands like QJo and then jamming all Axx and Kxx flop. Villain will surely fold his 98s or TT then, right?

I understand the point you're trying to make, but at raise sizes not much bigger we would actually come out ahead in that scenario. I'm not going to work out the exact % but I think it's around 35% stack commitment we are profitable.

This this this this this this this. Top to bottom, read this, commit to memory, play like this.

Anyone who says to fold must not play 2/5, or must have a massive leak in their game against unknowns. This is why i (as well as all the other people sitting on 5 buyins) 3 bet unknowns super wide...

+1, fantastic post by Ava.

Seems like a pretty good spot to 4 bet, I don't really like the idea of just making it $150 OOP unless the plan is to 4 bet and fold which seems pretty meh.

When we 4 bet AK OOP we are definitely hoping to get folds here because we are going to have less than 50% equity against his calling range regardless of how we size this. I would make it $175-$200 if the plan is to call it off.

98 BDFD is flipping within a range of QQ-AA+AK on J82.

Just 4! And fold to a 5!.

This isn't that complicated. We're unknown, UTG, we opened and we 4!. If V calls, jam most flops.

I probably 4! to ~200

Definitely 4bet. If you want to play AKo as a flat or fold sometimes, or if you have a solid read that villain has a 3bet range that crushes you and is always going with it, fine - but I think AKs at these stack sizes needs to pretty much always be a 4bet/gii absent other reads.

I don't like a shove here, because too many villains will "put you on" AK and go with medium pairs. I think 190 sounds good, shoving all flops, except perhaps like 89Tsss. I feel like 150-170 (allowing villain to call for 80-100 more) is going to get too many calls, and really we should be happy getting folds when we have this hand OOP.

4bet to 200, and folding for 260 more is really bad. If villain shoves only KK+ and a third of their QQ combos, we'll have the right odds to call it off. But unknowns *will* show up with hands like AQs or 99 or even AJo and 89s occasionally; they just do. It might not be often, but it's often enough to make a 4bet/fold at these stack sizes horribad.

I would like to call 3bet, and play post flop.

AKs is too strong to fold here.

Under 100BB 4bet/gii basically turn your AKs into a bluff, you use the blockers to rep AA/KK here which I don't think it is necessary as AKs have great value to play post-flop even OOP.

I am going to go with Venice on this one...shove pre here if well rolled, eliminates all issues...I guess I don't really care about the call option other than I might get some info, but assuming is well rolled for this game so shoving would be fine...

You know a lot of players who 5! shove 98s and can pick them out after only a few hands played??

Let's look at this realistically.

1) we're UTG
2) we're completely unknown
3) we raise UTG
4) a complete unknown 3! us
5) we 4! a complete unknown from UTG with an amount that leverages our stack
6) V then 5! jams

Is it possible V 5!s us with a bluff and ignores all this information? Sure. It's more likely that if V shoves he has AA or KK, which we are not getting the odds to play against.

The overwhelming majority of players will 5! with the ranges of either {KK+} or {AA}. They will call with everything they want to continue with that isn't in one of those 2 ranges.

The question is about population tendencies as a whole. Ask yourself this: 1 out of N hands that I see shoved for $460 at a 2/5 game is not KK+. What’s N? Similarly, what’s N if we consider only hands that are not JJ+ or AK?

Yes, most of their range is KK+, but when we’re getting such a good price, random spew starts to really affect our decision.

My point wasn’t so much that we should expect to see 89s often. It was that it’s the correct call if they only shove QQ+ even if they usually don’t shove QQ... It’s just that the random spew factor makes the call so much more obvious/simple.