Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-12-2017, 02:11 AM   #1
redbluegreen
newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 19
2/5 AA- overplayed?

I think I played this hand poorly, and would love some feedback.

MP1 just sat down 3 hands ago, based solely on appearance I would guess he is a passive player and not particularly good (could be completely wrong of course). Stacks are $470 effective.

Folds to MP1 call $5, CO call $5, Hero (SB) raise to $30 with AA, MP1 call, CO call.

Flop ($95): 568

Hero bet $70, MP1 call, CO fold.

Turn ($230): 568J

Hero bet $125, MP1 raise (all-in) $370, Hero call $245


Flop seems standard. I wasn't sure what do do on the turn. I think a fair bit of his range is sets, but it just seemed too weak to just check and give up on the turn, and my thinking was that if I'm going to call a bet on the turn anyways, I may as well put the bet in myself and potentially get called by worse/draws. Also the board is pretty wet, which influenced my decision- for example I wouldn't necessarily be stacking off it the flop had come 257

Anyways, that was my thinking during the hand. I think I should have folded once he shoved. My lead on the turn feels not so good, but I'm not convinced checking is better.

Help!
redbluegreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 03:41 AM   #2
outdonked
banned
 
outdonked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 547
Re: 2/5 AA- overplayed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbluegreen View Post
Flop ($95): 568

Hero bet $70, MP1 call, CO fold.

Turn ($230): 568J

Hero bet $125, MP1 raise (all-in) $370, Hero call $245
At the turn you got to go back at the flop and figure he got hit there not the Jack OTT but the flop hit him over the head. The Jack could not possibly have helped him OTT. The only way the Jack he may considers "help" is if he's got AJ and now he's got FD+TP on the turn. I'm not 100% as usual but I'm incline to think the flop was good for him. I think he can beat any overpair.
outdonked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 06:08 AM   #3
Jarretman
veteran
 
Jarretman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Canadaland
Posts: 2,172
Re: 2/5 AA- overplayed?

Looks fine.
Jarretman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 06:13 AM   #4
proBono
grinder
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 434
Re: 2/5 AA- overplayed?

That is a tricky hand .. And I think you played it fine. I would call it off here and accept that we are losing a lot.

I would play it like this:

pre: 40 (yeah it`s big .. but whatever .. raising AA in SB vs limpers is sketchy anyway and I want a lower SPR)
flop: 1/3 Pot or 80%
turn: bet/f small if we bet 1/3 Pot OTF and bet/call if we bet 80% ..
proBono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 11:04 AM   #5
Eholeing
grinder
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 427
Re: 2/5 AA- overplayed?

Check flop
Eholeing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 04:20 PM   #6
outdonked
banned
 
outdonked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 547
Re: 2/5 AA- overplayed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eholeing View Post
Check flop
What you accomplish by checking the flop? - Just give him a free card if he got any piece of the flop. Checking the flop is the absolute the worse play any dude will make with AA in a raised pot. Absolute amateurish horrible play.
outdonked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 06:07 PM   #7
djevans
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: springfield, VA
Posts: 3,489
Re: 2/5 AA- overplayed?

I'm going $40 - $50 pre OOP. I wouldn't mind $30 if we had the BTN or was in the CO. SB is just a tough spot to pick up a real hand if they all fold, it's not a huge deal - we win $15.

Already $17 in the pot - with your $2 SB. And people hate folding LLSNL

As played it's fine.

You can check turn but doesn't really mater. You probably wouldn't fold if he bets turn and jams river.
djevans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 06:47 PM   #8
WereBeer
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,858
Re: 2/5 AA- overplayed?

Check flop.
WereBeer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 07:10 PM   #9
outdonked
banned
 
outdonked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 547
Re: 2/5 AA- overplayed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBeer View Post
Check flop.
Check flop is a very weak play but I understand why you "pretend" of playing like that here on 2+2. I really do understand it. I think I should adjust the contents of my post too.
outdonked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 07:26 PM   #10
Jarretman
veteran
 
Jarretman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Canadaland
Posts: 2,172
Re: 2/5 AA- overplayed?

Checking flop is totally fine. Would prefer x/c flop with the Ah but meh.

@outdonked you are either a sublime troll or you got some issues man.
Jarretman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 08:07 PM   #11
outdonked
banned
 
outdonked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 547
Re: 2/5 AA- overplayed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarretman View Post
Checking flop is totally fine. Would prefer x/c flop with the Ah but meh.

@outdonked you are either a sublime troll or you got some issues man.
LOL ..., what? .. You mean I may be crazy? .. LOL

You should see me playing at the table. If people get confused here where we just write little posts ...maaaannnn! .. You should see how my villains get confused and have no idea how to handle me. ......., haha.

They don't know when to take me seriously or suspect me of having air. Also, I never come into the pot at the flop with just air. I always have an escape hatch, so to speak. I'm just playing the board starting from the turn and I cannot help it when they relate their hand to the board. Of course it's very hard to match the board even on the turn with their two cards. I know that, so I play the entire board like he's non existent. I always play 60:40 in the worse case scenario. He's got around at the best 40% to match the board on the turn. This is on average. So, from 10 plays I lose 4 and win 6 on average, a net of 2 pots for myself regardless. Now, sometime I flop or turn a good or near nut hand and clean him up. It happen like 1:10 or so per session/night. But all my villains get confused. That's for sure.

I can see why and understand how that could happen to a sane educated intellectual player. The problem is I'm not an intellectual but a hustler. I'm playing cards for a living.

Last edited by outdonked; 08-12-2017 at 08:25 PM.
outdonked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 08:16 PM   #12
wck117
adept
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 745
Re: 2/5 AA- overplayed?

I wouldn't feel good about calling it off vs a seemingly passive v.
A little more pre. Maybe 40. Flop is ok
Turn I really wouldn't want to get into this spot, what are we supposed to be beating when he shoves?
wck117 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2017, 07:53 AM   #13
TenFourOff
journeyman
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 259
Re: 2/5 AA- overplayed?

Your pf sizing is fine. Flop is incredibly wet, with lots of combination draws. I don't hate your flop sizing and do see the merit in a 2/3 pot size bet. However, I would probably bet full pot or even slightly over ($100 is a nice round number) given that I am out of position and would not mind taking it down on the flop since almost half the remaining deck will make the turn very hard to play.

The J is a blank, so I do think that you need to bet. I would probably call the raise, as there are enough hands that we are either ahead of or have odds to call. Overall, this is a tough hand due to you being in small blind.
TenFourOff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2017, 08:45 AM   #14
timmay28
veteran
 
timmay28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,484
Re: 2/5 AA- overplayed?

Standard line. C/C flop def has merit vs some good & creative player types but if I deem MP & CO to be on the recreational/passive side this is a bet for me all day
timmay28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2017, 07:51 PM   #15
branch0095
grinder
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 413
Re: 2/5 AA- overplayed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by timmay28 View Post
Standard line. C/C flop def has merit vs some good & creative player types but if I deem MP & CO to be on the recreational/passive side this is a bet for me all day
This for me. There are certain competent regs that I know I'll never get 3 calls from worse and will c/c flop or bet turn myself if it checks through when I'm playing out of the blinds with an OP. Against the average player pool, betting flop would be standard for me.

As played, readless and facing a 1/2 pot shove, I'm calling it off although I'm not particularly loving it. You don't block the NFD combos, and there's just so many draw/pair + draw combos in Vs range. Of course if it turns out he truly is a passive V that's never shoving less than 2p then we're obviously hating life, but 3-4 hands against an unknown 2-5 player just isn't nearly enough to come to any conclusions about his game.

Last edited by branch0095; 08-13-2017 at 07:58 PM.
branch0095 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2017, 10:49 AM   #16
samo
veteran
 
samo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,276
Re: 2/5 AA- overplayed?

< 100 bbs deep, hand played itself vs this type of opponent.

I'd go 1/2 PSB on flop. When he shoves turn, likely 2-pr (J8/86/65), but could also have JhXh, maybe J7. I'm fine with stacking off 94 bbs in this spot. Unlucky if u lost.
samo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2017, 11:29 AM   #17
answer20
Pooh-Bah
 
answer20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Corner of Walk/Don't Walk
Posts: 5,059
Re: 2/5 AA- overplayed?

I try to go a little extra PF against new players to make sure they're 'serious' about their holdings. New player may play a few 'extra' hands when they first sit down to see how the deck is treating them and/or get a feel for the table.

Same advice as most on Flop as $70 is a probably a minimum I want to bet here to look a little bluffy .. and I'm betting most of the time with the draws out there.

Turn I could go either way .. Pretty much any bet puts your stack reasonably at risk on the River but you don't want to give a free card either if you plan to c/c.

JhXh, TT/QQ/KK are going to shove the Turn here. You are 'live' against all hands except 97. You don't know how live you are against his range. I don't see b/f or c/f here on the Turn and would have to do a real soul read to c/f the River. GL
answer20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2017, 04:20 PM   #18
SwolyswoND
adept
 
SwolyswoND's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,177
Re: 2/5 AA- overplayed?

I would be much more willing to c/c flop if we were HU. Against 2 opponents, this is a crystal clear bet on the flop.

AP to the turn, b/c seems like the second worst line we can take (behind c/f) given that we interpret V as passive. I think we either have to b/f or c/c. If plan is to b/f I'm sizing down a bit on the turn, maybe $100 even.
SwolyswoND is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2017, 01:33 AM   #19
smokingrobot
Pooh-Bah
 
smokingrobot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: shoving 300BBs with 50% equity
Posts: 3,608
Re: 2/5 AA- overplayed?

I think you can reasonably get away from AA on this turn. You basically have to assume villain is just a complete mouth breather to stuff turn with a range that you are crushing.

Also, per your description, villain looks to be just a passive recreational player who suddenly wakes up and wants to play for every dollar - even at our most optimistic a passive player isnt going to yolo the NFD w/ J top pair and will instead wait "to hit" before putting in the stack.

Clearly we could say the "passive" assessment was incorrect, in which case Outdonked's response sums it up nicely: there arent many hands you're ahead of that a Js brings in. I think its easier to give villain a few laps to see where his mistakes are - perhaps you realize later you shouldnt have folded if villain turns out to be a serial blaster with a wider range (T9hh, AJhh type stuff say) but as far as general population estimates it makes more sense to assume they dont bluff often enough.
smokingrobot is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online