The game has only been running for a short while so there is no reads on V at this time.

V ~ $400; Hero covers

Hero is in BB, two limpers and Hero raises to $20 with A A
V calls in MP and another caller in LP

Flop(60) 23J Hero bets 35, V raises to 80, other folds.

When V is getting ready for his bet, he looked the LP caller up a few times to see how many chips he had.

Hero?

Raise more preflop, even with AA you re going to be OOP and you don't want to give a tell like the ton of folks who raise little with their small hands. So in this case, Standard Raise+1BB for each limper+ 1BB to play OOP.

I am thinking I check a good deal of a time as well. As played, I might make a crying call and fold on the turn, if he bets again.

I see a couple questions here. We haveto try to determine if he is semi-bluffing a draw, or holding a top pair type hand, the best we can. Im raising if I put him on a draw, im flatting if I put him on top pair so we can take him down on the turn.

Did he eye your stack too or just the LP player behind him? Him checking out LP stack makes me lean towards a draw since he may of been figuring his implied odds. He has position on you, and he could very likely raise a big draw here, especially if he is putting you on AK and thinks he may be able to take it down right there or at least be in control going to the turn. I feel like he would pop it more with TP, but at the same time we have no reads. Since its early and we have no read, Im leaning towards re-raising, so we dont risk allowing him to draw cheap and in control. This board is just not scaring me in this situation.

Crying call and a fold on the turn? What exactly are you afraid of on this board? We dont have any read that we are going to put him on a set and fold the overpair with no straight or flush made yet.

This is a raise, and I'm pretty sure it's not close.

Without a read, folding would be pretty bad.
Flatting can potentially put you in a weird turn spot.

I'm making it $265 with the expectation of snapping an AI.

He didn't appear to eye my stack as much as he focused on LP's stack. I think is range here is still pretty wide without any real reads. 22, 33 are very possible. All FD combos, Jx hands(although less likely AJ,KJ,QJ since he just limped) and very well could include some straight draws like 45s.

With the range I put him on, we are way ahead of most of it and only behind 22,33.

Agreed, and with that line, there is no way we can put him on 22 or 33. He would either flat your lead out to let you hang yourself on the turn, or if the draws scared him, he would raise more since his raise gave you correct odds to call and continue to draw anyway. We haveto consider ourselves ahead of essentially his entire range here, and I agree with the above poster who said a call puts us in a wierd turn spot OOP. Im moving more towards a definite raise here.

More preflop, which will result in you betting more on flop (3/4 PSB)

AP 3 bet him to 200-230 and call a jam obv if he ships overtop.

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I agree that 22 or 33 would usually call behind and let us hang ourselves. I didn't want to completely discard it for the fact that he may have been looking at LP's stack to raise him off any draws, as its more likely he would be on one than myself. If we raise here to 200 and he shoves are we calling 100% of the time. What hands can we put him on that he would 4bet shove with that we beat. Axcc, Kxcc, with his limp call its hard to put in on any combo draw besides maybe 45cc.

Not to say we are afraid of monsters under the bed but what range are we putting him on if he shoves over top of us.

Well at that point honestly it wouldn't matter what you put him on, you would be committed to calling his shove after we 3-bet.

As has been said, more preflop, I'm 3-towning the flop and snapping if he shoves. It'd be a different story if we were deeper, but 80bb effective, I'm happily getting AA in here against his entire flop raising range.

We don't have the Ac so he can have a ton of flush draws in his range here.

You would be getting such odds you would have to call but for the sake of it...

Limp calling that he would 4bet shove?
22,33,AJo (maybe),AXcc (huge portion of his shove range), 45cc or even offsuit and maybe getting stubborn with kqcc or something along those lines.

Only made hands he could have that are ahead are a set or 23 suited.

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Yea, id never 3 bet fold here.

I elect to call to keep his entire range in here and expect him to bet most turns if his draw doesn't hit and to check back a lot of his jx hands.

Plan is to jam all none boards if he bets turn.

Turn(220) A

Hero checks, V checks

River(220) 4

Hero?

I guess this is a spot that I struggle with as far as if I should be betting out worse hands or keeping them in to extract more value. If I 3-bet I expect V to fold almost always.

Being OOP is another good reason to 3bet the flop... doesn't put you in sticky situations first to act on bad runouts.

No reads... Your options are b/f river as a bluff, or check to induce a bluff and consider calling.

I don't like turning top set into a bluff, so I think I'd check and evaluate based on his bet size and live reads.

His turn check-back is very telling. I think that means it's very unlikely that he has a 2-card flush in his hand.

Based on your live experience, do you see many people check their made hands on the turn, especially when they hit?

And in no way am I trying to sound defensive, has I talked this hand through with another player last night and found out that I played it less than perfect. I'm just trying to dissect each move the best that I can.

I mean, it happens, but I would consider someone checking back a flush there to be making a pretty big mistake. The board could pair, or another club could come off on the river killing his action.

I think the moral of the story, though, is that we should be 3betting this flop and getting it in.

Him checking the turn REALLY makes me think he doesn't have a two clubs in his hand (and well obv the A clubs came out killing all his AXcc hands) him checking makes me think he has 23suited,45suited or the like and then the river brings out the 4 of clubs.

Really you might be beat by 45 offsuit with the 5 of clubs or maybe a KJ,QJ type hand with the other Broadway card being a club but I'm not too sure here.

I think a B/f is easily the best move in this spot somewhat small like a little less than half pot being that he will never bluff raise worse and MIGHT even fold out a really small 1 card flush (like 45 offsuit)

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I am sorry, I thought the board had three clubs. Yeah, we re ahead of his range. A reraise might be in play here, but I wonder if we re only making worse hands fold.

Agreed

Your saying ONLY sets and 23 calls/shoves overtop a flop 3bet?!?!?

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No, but a major part of his range that may continue betting us on the turn folds. OTOH, it is true that a completed flush on the turn makes our life far more difficult and he may catch up on us in some other ways, so I am not sure which part should weigh more in our decision.

If I may harp on the betting issue a bit. I think that a $25 bet makes the flop pot $75 and a $30 pf bet makes the pot $90. Then, we can make a $50-$60 flop bet with a pot stack ratio of around 5. This would make me far more comfortable going all in if he reraises us. Also probably easier for Villain to call us with worse.

We are all essentially in agreement that a 3-bet on the flop would have been optimal.

Now, since you flatted the flop and took a turn, you hit top set on the turn. But the turn also made the flush get there, as well as 45 got there with the wheel. I would have liked betting out the turn here with a feeler. I like a modest bet here, say about $80ish. If he shoves, then I think we can find a fold here at this point with the straight and flush both getting there and his flop play having looked like a draw.

As played, with the turn going check check, i agree with others we can prolly write off him having 2 clubs in his hand. At this point im looking at him having Jx, getting scared by turn having brought an overcard and completing flush and straight and therefore checking it back. Im also feeling at this point that we can probly write off him having a club at all, since if he has say Jx with a club, JQ or JK, with the Ac out there, he would be paired up with the NFD or 2nd NFD, in position, and would have likely bet the turn. I think theres nothing to be gained by betting out the river, we likely beat most of his range, and the board is too wet to get called by worse. He may, however, bluff at it. So im liking a check call on the river, unless he does something crazy like shoves, then we have a decision.

I bet river for 120 with the idea that if he had hit a small set and had a club that he would possibly fold. He calls and shows 10,6 of clubs. I talked over the hand with another local player after it happened and we agreed a bet of 80 or so would have most likely got the same result.