If there's 3 convos of JJ, 66, 44.... Then there's 12 combos of AJ. And why couldbt he have QQ or just be making a move? Without more information on this guy, this is an obvious call. It's probably on here because be lost, and just wants to make sure he was supposed to call... And he was! You don't put in 1/6 of your stack preflop and 40% post flop bet with AA then fold when you're heads up without an absolutely bat shi+ crazy good read. End of story.

sizing perfect pre. over $150 is way too much. we have the nuts pre and dont mind three calls but raising to narrow field.
snap call flop. SPR of 2 means we can never fold AA unless up against a super nit or flop comes KQx in 4bet pot against tight range.
i like a flop check if it induces bluff or he will fold TT 88 maybe even QQ but call down putting u on AK if u check flop. Or if it will induce a bet from pairs protecting against ak.

i would not check kk qq here as we are vulnerable to overcards unless we are damn near certin it will induce a bet.

In our games - a dude that calls a pre-flop raise AND then calls a 3-bet (now being oop) doesn't have QQ or KK or AA. If he's got AJ - in most cases, it's suited because he thinks his flush draw is good. So I would discount AJos unless the player was a drooler.

PLUS, when the somebody 3-bets - he's either got QQ, KK, AA or AKs. On such a dry board - the only hand that V beats with a J is AK. Based on the betting and the pot size - V has got to figure that he's got no fold equity.

So... with no fold equity - and against a guy who's probably got an overpair to the J - why is V shoving? is it a bluff or for value?

Since any average player can assume that a naked J is no good - V has got to have 2-pair or a set. Since the board doesn't show any 2-pair that any most V's would call with, I assumed he had a set. But J6 is essentially the same as a set in this case.

You don't need a soul-read to make a good fold here. Just common sense. This ain't the Moneymaker days any more. Guys don't shove 100bb+ on a bluff or with top/top any more - esp vs. such as strong betting line. If this were a wild 1/2 game - then a call might be appropriate. But guys that are playing 750+ in a 2/5 game typically know their way around the poker table.

Troll post of the year?

Having trouble deciding which of the above is funniest/cutest

LOL!

only on 2+2 is the guy who gives a rational explanation to his correct answer to a Q called a troll

and the guy who's advice is "snapcall" thinks he's actually contributing to the forums




so timmay - do you make your fortune playing the nosebleed stakes or is it mostly made from poker coaching?

Sizing is fine. Get it in

Grunch

3bet size is way too small after 4 callers. Ideal would be about $175, but I might go slightly less to induce a call depending on table conditions.

AP, when the pot is $350 and effective stacks are $625, I see no need to bet this dry flop. We don't need 3 streets to get stacks in. We fear no turn card. Check behind and keep your range wide, let your opp think you have AK. Let him bluff and/or call with worse on the later streets. Playing flop this way lets him play perfectly against your obvious overpair.

AP on the flop, without reads, this probably should be a fold in theory but I dunno if I'm good enough to do so at the table.

I mean, you can't try to have credibility regarding your post when you talk about the guy with J6 knowing his way around a poker table.

There are a very few circumstances when I fold here, but with no history or reads, folding is bad.

People do crazy stuff in big pots all of the time.

Your flop bet is too large for stack sizes and board wetness.

It's a pretty clear call, what V that you think is solid based on his stack size ever has 2pr here given he opened in EP and called a 3-bet with active players behind? (Not saying a back raise is likely but a short stack 250-300 may decide to gamble with a mid-PP against Heros range of AA-QQ,AK,AxQx and having been at the table knowing Vs UTG range is superwide). Why would V not play this way for value with AJ or QQ? If Hero has AK he's stuck. If V calls the flop he risks having hero be able to play perfectly against him after he checks turn unless you think he should use a stop and go which seems sub-optimal.

The 3bet call range here is weighted toward KK, followed by QQ, then other PP, then Broadway hands, then suited cards, then AA, then everything else. Some might quibble with my ordering and I welcome that, but it's something like this.

Many people 3bet KK+ only. Some QQ+,AK. Some add in some bluffs. Some add in some "whatever" because they've got the button. Some know a good squeeze spot when they see one. Assuming V is a 2nd level thinker is a bad assumption given what little we know. (V's preflop action and Hero thinks V may be aggressive/reckless, is young and looks relaxed throughout the hand)

To assume that V should understand that he has no FE is just wrong. V's 2nd level thinking could be limited to "I put you on AK". V's shove could be value, semi-bluff, or rarely air. Much of a bad V's value range is behind AA.

Not counting the air and the stuff we're behind, V could have Jx, 6x, 4x, AK, KK, QQ, TT, other PP, 87, 85, 75, 73, 53, 52, 32.

This hand wasn't even threadworthy. Effective stacks would need to be $1000+, then there might be something to discuss. I appreciate that you took the time to explain your reasoning, but folding at this SPR, to this V, is a gross mistake.

OP asked a nitty but fine question, we all question ourselves when we get stacked, but I don't get why he's getting trolled?

I likepreflop sizing, and im snapcalling this

OP I think you played hand fine. But how did V look after his bet? Did he look comfortable or tense? Notice where his eyes were focused or his pattern of breathing? Those do count as reads even if you're not sure if they indicate strength or weakness.

You played the hand fine. I love the sizing preflop and bet size on the flop.

Given that this guy showed up with J6o here, I have to think you're crushing his range when he shoves over your flop bet.

No one else wants to check behind the flop? We can get stacks in easily on 2 streets if we want. By checking we keep our range much wider, and V will be more willing to pay us off with TT type hands on later streets because he "puts us on AK." Bombing this flop might as well put up a sign that says "I have an overpair" and allow V to fold his air or c/r when he has us, like he did here.

Why is this a snap call again?

His PF calling range is not = to his flop c/rAI range when its obvious we have an overpair, IMO.

Of course it's not. When he's calling with J6o here, we have to assume he's calling with Q3o as well, and probably just check-folding on the flop.

But if he's calling with J6o, we have to assume he's the type of player whose range we crush when he shoves.

This is all in hindsight of course.

Except I don't think you can make that leap. Just because he's insanely loose PF doesn't mean he's going to check/shove with any piece of the flop. Players like that often call wide pre just to try to flop bingo. That doesn't automatically mean that he's going to check/shove any Jx or similar hands.

On a flop this dry, his c/shoving range has one pair crushed, particularly when our hand looks exactly like what it is. I have yet to see a convincing argument for betting this flop as opposing to betting turn and river to get in stacks.

How do you think V plays AJ, QQ or even some combos of AQs with the backdoor draw? Would Hero only C-bet this flop with over pairs? Does he not fire with AK?

This is simply not true. For starters, consider PPs:
AA 1 combo
KK,QQ 12 combos
sets 9 combos

Many V's play KK & especially QQ this way all the time. They put Hero on AK, or some button FOS, they make sure no overcards flop, and gii. And how much do we discount the sets? V's love to be trappy. And on this board, they should be right? They've got a set against our "obvious" overpair, why are they trying to blow us out of the hand on a dry board?

And what about AJ & 87? Lots of V's so ready to GII here.

Anyway, we only need 25% equity here to call. We have so much more than that in this spot, it isn't funny.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but even if villan turns his cards face up we have to call. We are s 3/1 dog and we are getting about 3/1 on a call. The pot and we have 325 to call it off to win a pot of 1075. Someone help me with the exact equity but I believe we need 30% equity. I suppose it's not quite a profitable call but looking at villans range it is most certainly a call.

We don't have enough reads on V or hero image to know for sure. Checking and betting both have merit. If V has outs to beat us and we don't charge him on the flop, we need to gain enough by deceptively checking to make up for this theoretical loss of EV by letting him see a free turn card.

I expect V to c/c those hands. Sure, Hero can cbet AK here. That's exactly why AJ/QQ would c/c... even Vs realize that Heros range here is heavily weighted toward an OP so they're not just going to check/ship a hand that would lose to one.