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Old 05-19-2017, 07:35 AM   #26
Sol Reader
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Re: 2/5: AA in BB vs 5 villains

I raise smaller than 75 for sure, and I definitely check a good chunk of flops if it's HU, and definitely if it flops an ace.

Sometimes you lose because the pot goes multiway, but sometimes you win more money (or any money, they could all fold). Gotta take a risk sometimes.
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:57 AM   #27
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Re: 2/5: AA in BB vs 5 villains

I would not flat this pre. It's definitely a raise, and sizing is all to discuss.

The only reason not to jam is if you think you will not get called in at least 1 spot. My experience is that villains will level themselves into calling here.

While getting multiple players to stack off otf, or ott is great, when you add up the EVs of a few scenarios,

e.g. jam and get one caller vs small raise and get 3 callers and jam otf, etc.

Its quite close and imo the chance that you get more then one caller to your preflop jam way exceeds the outcomes where you jam otf against multiple players who called a smaller pfr.
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:45 AM   #28
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Re: 2/5: AA in BB vs 5 villains

I can see raising smaller, but I also want to be able to take it down with other hands, perhaps even on a squeeze steal semi-bluff. And to do that, I need AA to be in my range sometimes. Different playing philosophies will differ here.
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:47 AM   #29
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Re: 2/5: AA in BB vs 5 villains

I think AA being the only exception here will be fine. Firstly they won't know we don't have AA when we make it bigger, secondly, only removing AA won't decrease our equity and FE by that much even if they do suspect it (and they will suspect it regardless if we actually use a smallersize after all)

If we do go bigger, I think jam's best.
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:14 AM   #30
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Re: 2/5: AA in BB vs 5 villains

I think a smaller raise will look like QQ+ to anyone who's played more than a hundred hours, but I could be wrong in this assessment. If I am raising a smaller amount, I think AKs, and perhaps JJ+ should also be in this range. It is multiway, and I think it's around 50% of the time JJ is an overpair. I think if we're doing smaller raises here, it's AKs, JJ+, just calling w/ weaker, and not jamming anything (bluff or otherwise), which I can see in my game potentially.
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:32 AM   #31
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Re: 2/5: AA in BB vs 5 villains

Very easy jam. You have a bluffy/losing image and this is a classic squeeze spot. If anyone has AQ+, 99+ expect to be called (oftentimes, in more than 1 spot). If everyone folds to him, sometimes the last caller will call you with hands like J9s or 33 as well.

As a matter of fact, when you are this short, you should be shoving quite wide. AJ+, ATs+, KQ, 77+ should all be shoved in pre here. If you have a hand like 55 or or 98s, you should call instead of shoving in this spot, as with your image and this being such a classic squeeze spot, you will be called most of the time.
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:02 PM   #32
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Re: 2/5: AA in BB vs 5 villains

I would jam all in. I don't want that many people seeing the flop and crack my aces. If they all fold then I'm happy taking the pot preflop any day.


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Old 05-19-2017, 01:18 PM   #33
leavesofliberty
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Re: 2/5: AA in BB vs 5 villains

AA also has a lot of equity multiway so you can make an argument here for treating AA differetly but I prefer to disquise my hands.
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:43 PM   #34
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Re: 2/5: AA in BB vs 5 villains

Given the exact situation, I have a basically 0% flatting range.

~~~

UTG opens $15 and gets 4 callers. Its $75 to Hero, and Hero has $175. When Hero calls the pot will be $85 (assuming $5 rake) and Hero has $160 left, but it will be 6 ways.

If Hero shoves, the first caller is getting $250:160 or 1.5:1 to call, needing about 40% equity. Given that Hero's range is > AA alone, then calling it off is not terrible on the part of the first villain. The 2nd villain to call is making the correct move.

Smaller raise make the odds too good, IMO.
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:48 PM   #35
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Re: 2/5: AA in BB vs 5 villains

I think I want to raise to $50-$55, get a bunch of calls, jam the rest on the flop, get more calls, and hope my hand is best at the end. I'm looking for the triple/quadruple up.
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Old 06-01-2017, 08:55 PM   #36
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Re: 2/5: AA in BB vs 5 villains

Came across this situation in my last session ... UTG is a tightwad who opens for $15, three callers and I'm in the BB. I tell UTG that I'll call if I have anything decent. I peel AA. This time I had $400 behind, so shoving would have been dumb.

I made it $65. Aaaaaand ... everyone folded. Lol.
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Old 06-01-2017, 09:27 PM   #37
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Re: 2/5: AA in BB vs 5 villains

^^^then start 3!ing more.
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Old 06-01-2017, 11:03 PM   #38
Rich Checkmaker
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Re: 2/5: AA in BB vs 5 villains

Quote:
Originally Posted by dozer View Post
Came across this situation in my last session ... UTG is a tightwad who opens for $15, three callers and I'm in the BB. I tell UTG that I'll call if I have anything decent. I peel AA. This time I had $400 behind, so shoving would have been dumb.

I made it $65. Aaaaaand ... everyone folded. Lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BackDoorFlush View Post
^^^then start 3!ing more.
more like don't open your mouth. saying "I'll call if I have anything decent" and then 3betting will not help your action in spots like this. you're being too friendly and people will correctly see your 3bet as being genuinely strong. shut up next time and pop it up and now they might think you are some aggro player trying to squeeze and take it down pre. from my experience my results are markedly improved when i shut my damn mouth and just play poker. you'll get more action that way.

3betting more from the big blind is probably not a great idea either. the results wont be the same when you do it with junk because there will be more aces for villains to call with and your OOP.

Also I wouldn't mind 3betting to 55 or 60 here instead of 65. If you get outflopped and stacked its not a bad play. 60 feels like the better raise than 65. Having to call 45 more rather than 50 is a lot easier.
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