Jr5am at 2/5 table. Hero has been relatively inactive, seen as tight, possibly weak/tight. Villain is LAG/maniac regular who has been raising 60% of pots from all positions. V squeezes at every opportunity. V has made the comment "I had to raise, my hand was garbage" after squeezing and firing 2 barrels with napkins.

Hero sitting on $1k
Villian covers

V straddles to $10 UTG
Hero raises to $40 in CO 9♠ 9♣
BTN calls
BB calls
V raises to $240 (huge for this game)
Hero calls
BTN and SB fold
(Pot $558 after rake)

Flop Q♣ Q♦ 7♣
V leads for $210
Hero calls
(Pot $978)

Turn A♠
Villian checks
Hero checks

River 3♣
Villian snap bets "all in" ($550 eff)
(Pot $1528)
Hero goes into the tank and asks "what can you have here?"
Villian replies "full house"
....Hero?

If I was properly rolled for the game and had no problems re-buying, I would push preflop. If not, I would fold to the re-raise (and probably look for another game).

As played... well, usually in these spots everytime you call, villain shows up with something like AQ, and everytime you fold, he tosses up a hand like T4o and laughs in your face.

You get good odds but you really don't beat anything. It is either some random bluff/spaz or a real hand.

However, I think the biggest problem here is calling of 25% of your stack preflop with 99.

If you are inclined to continue pre then jamming is much better than calling.

He'd have to be 3bing with a really wide range though.

Never calling PF and putting 1/4 of my stack in witty 99 unless I've already determined that I'm jamming all flops after the maniac V undoubtedly c-bets. 99 is likely ahead of most of what this type of V has in his range (if he's actually as maniacal as you've described), but you're not going to get that many clean boards that leave you being able to be totally confident that you have the best hand and that leaves you playing a pure guessing game. Plus you're just not deep enough to set mine.

If I have your hand here, I either come to the conclusion that I have the best hand often enough to be able to profitability jam, or I just fold. Like I said at the beginning, if I'm flatting his 3-bet (which I'm never doing anyways) it's with the intent to GII on all but the ugliest of flops.

This hand basically plays like a 5/10, against a maniac you have to be willing to put your stack in. Seems like JJ/QQ/KK still beats you after checking the turn, AA is unlikely because he was in straddle, you need 25%+ to justify calling, you only beat 44/55/66 that turns into bluff because he knew you don't have a queen after checking turn

Sent from my ASUS_Z00VD using Tapatalk

While I can see jaming pre due to awkward stack size....are we thinking we will ever fold out better? Maybe he folds TT exactly but he snaps with JJ+ of course. We good with fliping for 200bb vs his two overs?
Folding just seems criminal against this player but the 3 bet sizing is so big that I suppose I can see that too.

Looking back I like shipping flop the most.

The ace seems like a bad card for him to bluff because it looks like I have AQs, KQs, AK, or maybe TT+ when I call the flop.
Him open shoving the river when the club comes in just looked bluffy to me. What value hands is he doing this with? If he had a Queen or 77 I think he bets turn, if he has an ACE wouldnt he check call river when clubs come in? Q beats him, and if I have an Ace it's AK or AQ. Maybe he does this with clubs or 33? Just seems weird to snap all in when your draw comes in on a paired board.....so getting nearly 3:1 on a call against a maniac....can we really fold?

Shove pre, if your reads are accurate and you have the BR.

If we give him a very tight (for a maniac) calling range like JJ+, AQ+, you still have 40% equity when called. But a maniac might very well talk himself into calling much looser, the "you would never to that with Aces, so I put you on Ace-King and it is basically a coinflip, I call" and flip over something like T6s or 44 or whatever.

Also note that this play is good for your table image long-term.

Definitely need to raise him pre-flop or just fold. Other option is to jam this flop, which is pretty good for your hand.

As played, not sure what I'd do, but with the clubs, probably fold and kick myself. If river were not a club, I'd probably call it off, but the club just puts so many more hands in his range that beat us.

Shove pre or fold m8

If this is true I think we need to jam pre. It potentaly folds out alot of hands that have decent equity vs 99 (AQ, AJ, suited broadways, ) but do not want to play for stacks. If he's calling with these hands he is probably calling with smaller pps so still good.

AP flop has got to be jam or fold and I lean towards jam.

AP.....IDK, its a mess we should not have gotten into.

wat?

he's not calling with all of his 2 over combos, so we have some fold equity (if he got frisky with QJs or something)

if we're going with this hand, it's a clear ship pre, otherwise just fold imo

First, you cannot be a caller for 25% of effective
Second, you went too deep in the hand, this mistake is the result of the preflop error. You raised to $40 and villain 3! to $240, that 6x your raise. ... ha,ha
Is villain do his plays with 88 or less? - or what?

You are behind to about anything.(you beat 66, 55, 44, 22)
Routinely breaking this thing by trying to keep maniacs honest by calling 25% of effective and going deep will prevent you to be a winning player.

all in pre or all in otf, calling is the nut low

Agreed.


In the end hero tank called.



Villian showed.......Q3o for the boat.

You called his shove and played for the entire 1K stacks? - with an unimproved pair?

Gee ..., wtf ..! ...

pretty sure river is a call as played m8

but yeah pre was the mistake, you'll be folding the best hand way too much post and 99 is way too strong to fold vs maniac

edit : woo i didnt see turn check, well that spot sucks. maybe river is a fold then

No, you're never folding out better. A maniac is snapping TT. By your own reads you have the best hand the majority of the time, though, and folding out hands that either have equity or may bluff us off later is a fine result. We can get called by worse on a shove.

Also, you're only 100 straddles deep.

How can you guys say the river is a call "as played" ?

"as played" is stupid, that's the whole problem. Doesn't matter if we fold the best hand preflop or OTF sometimes because that "mistake", if true, will be a SMALL mistake. It doesn't matter to the bottom-line. On the other hand, calling the entire stack for 1K is a HUGE mistake that impacts the bottom-line

I say, the "as played" pre-river is a huge mistake and that mistake compounds all other mistakes into a huge one by the river. Why not "wake-up" from the bad dream and salvage what's left? - Why call the last $550 because you screw-up the first $700?

OK, ... whatever ..., Never feel obligated like you have to call the turn or river because you called the flop. Maybe your flop or turn call was justified. Maybe it was optimistic. Whatever it was, the river is a new decision unrelated with mistakes you made on previous streets. You’re better off folding if your opponent makes a big bet and you can’t beat the hand he’s representing. You’re never committed to call a bet on the end if that bet is still a significant percentage of the pot like in this situation for half pot.

If you can't figure out pre that he's blasting with Q3 then wtf are you paying attention to?

so you think this guy plays Q3o like this pre to check fold post when he misses?

the turn CHECK is interesting and is the only reason you could find a fold OTR

now that we know his range includes Q3os, should we always try to push pre?

or is it better to flat with this hand, and close our eyes and call 2 streets always, where we can get into something like an 80/20 situation post flop.

No shove is so free. Way too much guessing post with vulnerable hand. Maybe flat QQ+

No, I don't think he's got Q3o, no way, it's impossible to put him on Q3o. What I'm saying is that you raised pre to $40 and for some stupid reasons villain 4-bet you to $240. That's 6x your raise. I would have folded pre and give up my little $40. Nothing spectacular. Even if somehow by mistake I would have called his $240 pre, I'm sure I would have not, but let's say I did by being optimistic, I would not continue on an unimproved pair to a set. Once we call the flop bet we start feeling committed and waste the entire stack of 1K because of frustration being against a maniac. We're not thinking straight anymore.

I find a lot of players making the mistake of coming after the maniac. You should never come after the maniac or call his big bets unless you have a big strong hand because you could set yourself up for lots of mistakes. The most important is to play position on him. I honestly don’t recommend raising the maniac. Let him betting into you especially when you have a big hand, and if he draws out, oh well .., so be it. If you’re willing to raise him, be ready for a 3! or an all-in from him. The most important is let him come to you. You don’t go after him and sooner or later he’s gonna break and make a mistake, you know .., and you get his chips. And don't keep calling his huge bets with 99 unimpreved and get to play for stacks of 1K by the river.