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/5 - 88 standard turn call with one overcard? /5 - 88 standard turn call with one overcard?

12-24-2015 , 03:57 PM
Reads: Young guy in his mid 20s or so. About 15 minutes into the game (new table) so really no info on him. He has raised at least once pre already but didn't show. I'll assume he's between TAG and LAG, and capable of bluffing.

I open limp 88, UTG (I'd raise with 5 or 6 players left to act, but with 8 left to act it's closer between flatting and raising).

Folds to V in BB who makes it 20. I flat. $500 effective

Flop: Q53. Villain bets $30 and I flat. Probably controversy on this decision.

Turn: Q53 7. He bets $80.

Hero?
/5 - 88 standard turn call with one overcard? Quote
12-24-2015 , 04:34 PM
I think I would peel the turn as well for 20, hoping to hit the miracle 8 or at least pick up some equity i.e. straight/flush draws.

I don't think the turn is terrible, but facing continued aggression I personally would be giving up on it on the turn.
/5 - 88 standard turn call with one overcard? Quote
12-24-2015 , 05:00 PM
He bet $80. At best you are up against AK with a heart. I would fold.
/5 - 88 standard turn call with one overcard? Quote
12-24-2015 , 05:16 PM
Good flop call. Turn is a fold without more info.
/5 - 88 standard turn call with one overcard? Quote
12-24-2015 , 06:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandGuy
Good flop call. Turn is a fold without more info.
This.

The sexy play is to merge your hand into a bluff and raise. But with no information on the player, and his good bet sizing, I'm folding.
/5 - 88 standard turn call with one overcard? Quote
12-24-2015 , 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandGuy
Good flop call. Turn is a fold without more info.
I approve of this message.
/5 - 88 standard turn call with one overcard? Quote
12-25-2015 , 02:56 AM
Eh, I think the flop has to be a fold.

You're oop and it will be very hard to get to showdown.

You don't want to see a turn or river 9,T,J,K,A.

Villain could certainly barrel an A,K or whether he already has the best hand, improved, or has the worst hand, but you can't call. In the OP hand, turn is a fold.

And if villain does have just two random overs, like JhTx, he has 30% hot/cold equity.
/5 - 88 standard turn call with one overcard? Quote
12-25-2015 , 03:44 AM
Raise the turn.
/5 - 88 standard turn call with one overcard? Quote
12-25-2015 , 04:28 AM
You need more info on villain to consider raising here. Pretty easy fold at this point.
/5 - 88 standard turn call with one overcard? Quote
12-25-2015 , 09:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willyoman
Eh, I think the flop has to be a fold.

You're oop and it will be very hard to get to showdown.

You don't want to see a turn or river 9,T,J,K,A.

Villain could certainly barrel an A,K or whether he already has the best hand, improved, or has the worst hand, but you can't call. In the OP hand, turn is a fold.

And if villain does have just two random overs, like JhTx, he has 30% hot/cold equity.
I disagree. Flop is an easy call on this board. If V checks back then we can bluff/bink river, not to mention we have the best hand otf a bunch of the time. If V was loose passive I could understand a fold otf, but if he is anywhere between TAG and LAG as stated in the description he is cbetting almost all of his air on this board.

Merry ****ing Christmas
/5 - 88 standard turn call with one overcard? Quote
12-25-2015 , 05:23 PM
Raise pre against a table that will fold so much. (But I understand your logic since it's early)

As played, I think turn is a raise to 180-200ish. Hopefully he folds, but if not then we'll have to reevaluate on the river. If he shoves we gotta fold.

Quite frankly, I don't believe he has the flush he's repping. We have a blocker and only AK is a clear raise from the big blind (but then again many just like to flat with it). KJ and other suited connectors (which are also blocked by our 8h and the 7h out there) if he is really on the Laggy side of the spectrum.

However, if he calls and then bombs it on a non-heart, overcard river...sadly we'll probably have to fold since we won't have the pot odds to call and he very well could have spiked something. That shows extreme strength since we had just c/r'd his turn bet.

Regardless of turn action, I bet/probably fold if our flush hits otr.
/5 - 88 standard turn call with one overcard? Quote
12-25-2015 , 09:24 PM
limp/raise preflop.

You limped in order to avoid the 8 other players, they all folded and now the BB makes a weak raise. Perfect opportunity to make it $60, play the hand in position, with a good hand and a strong perceived range considering you limp raised UTG
/5 - 88 standard turn call with one overcard? Quote
12-25-2015 , 11:02 PM
call on flop and fold turn imo. Not enough info to raise.
/5 - 88 standard turn call with one overcard? Quote
12-26-2015 , 12:35 AM
I think this is a fold!
V is likely to have either a flush draw on the flop AJ+ that got there. I think it's unlikely that he is drawing after the turn since his bet is asking to be called. Also with the 3rd h on board he should be concern that you might have made the flush and can push him off his draw. I.e unless his has the near nuts.

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/5 - 88 standard turn call with one overcard? Quote
12-26-2015 , 09:28 AM
Yeah, you're right, call the flop. I thought we were oop. In position, I call.

I guess oop, it could still be a call... I just think being oop is far worse for us as villain gets to play turns more perfectly (whatever that might mean... check to realize all equity, bet for value, bet as a bluff, etc), and he would get to play well again on the river with similar options (except check to realize equity), and most run-outs aren't great for us.
/5 - 88 standard turn call with one overcard? Quote
12-26-2015 , 10:50 AM
No reads and 15 min, this is a pretty ez fold.

If he is capable, which we don't know, there aren't many QX hands in your L/C range. Besides the nuttier part of his range, he could be valuing JJ/TT.
/5 - 88 standard turn call with one overcard? Quote
01-02-2016 , 02:26 PM
How's this strategy look?

No limp/raising range preflop. Limp calling range of 55-88, AJs, KQs, KJs or 42 combos.

Flop calling range of bottom set, 66-88, KQs, AJ, AJ, KJ, and KJ which means we call him 67% of the time with 28 hands. Also we have no flop raising range since it's a fairly dry board with just one flush draw.

On the turn, don't we want to try to not let him bluff ATC? Or are you guys OK with letting him bet ATC since we are readless? Again this is a young kid (more likely to playing optimal/correctly than a "make a hand" old NIT). Note that we can exploit a make a hand NIT here by folding 88.

Also can we start raising turn? How about a raising range of bottom set, 66x, KJ?

And how about a calling turn range of KQ, 88x, and 77x?

We'd then defend the turn w/ 16 combos or 57% of the time, which is enough to stop him from profitably betting ATC if his bluffs have zero equity.

Last edited by BenT07891; 01-02-2016 at 02:51 PM. Reason: Awaiting more discussion before results
/5 - 88 standard turn call with one overcard? Quote

      
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