when did AsJd fold, for example? what about all the XhXh hands?

This is not the board to bet 1/3 PSB unless you’re planning to b/b/shove or b/b/call. Villain has tons of weak floats including every combo of AXx that be made it to the flop with.

He still has plenty of QQ-99 that is beating you. Bet $150 on the turn and x/c most rivers.

just correcting what appeared to be confusion regarding eff stacks

what about b/b/f?

or b x/c x/f

obv check evaluate turn

not sure how anything can be obv when 1/2 of villains range has apparently vanished into the ether

Betting here doesn’t really make sense with this hand, IMO. By alowing yourself to be floated wide because of your small flop sizing you have a great hand to check/call. If we planned on turning our pair into a bluff the time to do so was with a larger flop sizing/turn bomb.

Generally when we 3! 87s OOP preflop the expectation should be we are turning our hand into a bluff rather than taking our pair of 8’s to the felt cuz we have “SDV.”

Betting turn even if sizing down still has some value component and is still well protected by a strong perceived value range.

Pre calling is fine. SCs are balance cards and you shouldnt be calling 100% here, you should be folding >50% but a call is ok, and not much better of a spot than when a rec player is gonna likely call behind.

LLSNL sure loves 3 betting literally every hand that you can 3 bet with. 87s is a balancing hand, you can do both sometimes.

One thing to think about pre as far as closing action is that having a rec in the hand with you will cut down on cbets and double barrels because the station will reduce the FE.

AP you should be betting flop small, like $40. ($60 is fine) Basically you should have 2 flop ranges. $40 would be Kx, 8x, 88-KK, and $130 bets would be AK AA, maybe KQ, and youd have FDs and bluffs in both ranges.

Turn you should continue to bet small, like $80, it will keep his draws in, fold out his floats, and you should be prepared to check and snap call a big bet on a blank river. Vs range is weak made hands and FDs, so he would check back his weak made hands on the river unless they improved so he will have a fat bluffing range on a no spade river, although if the spade comes and he bets, im folding. Im also snap calling a turn raise, id expect him to have either 5sXs, 6s7s, or maybe 53.

Also this is how you stack a LAG with 2nd pair.

You are deep here, and if he's a bad player I would call. I do think 7/8 suited against few players is a marginal decision. I would lead out on the flop as described, and then be done with it against a reraise, no clubs on the board.

My bad, I was rushed when I was writing that last piece. He def has these in his range

I'm not good enough to have 2 ranges otf.

grunching preflop action:

I almost always call here because live poker lol, but I think folding is probably best. 78s isn't really the type of hand we want to play oop against a sLAG, especially if he is competent at all. You beat sLAGs by making a strongish hand and letting them bet. This is tougher to do OOP, and 78s isn't a hand that flops a strong value hand very often, and assuming this guy is going to put you in tough positions, isn't going to be that easy to play on most runouts.

This would be a much easier call against a TAG, or any straightforward opponent, where his ranges are more defined and is less likely to get into a levelling war with you post flop.

grunching flop:

Lead 70-80. Assuming you are 3-betting somewhat regularly, I prefer to c-bet on the smaller size in 3b pots.

turn:

I'm betting again, stronger this time. I'd go $200 into 290. Now is the time to get the 8x, 99-JJ, and random floats in his hand to fold. If called, I'm check/calling all non-spade rivers. check/folding spades.

^ by the river we are pot committed. I’m just accepting that he’s gonna have some flushes as well as loads of AXx hands that floated to steal on the scare card.

I don't mean to personally attack you Johnnybuz but the posts you have made in this thread is some of the worst advice i've read on these forums. The notion that we have to continue to relentlessly jam money into the pot when our hand does not want to (is only getting called by better) because we have a preflop "bluff" is ridiculous. We don't have to win this pot. We don't have to make better fold. It's fine to be bluffed off the winning hand. What is important is that we continue to make +ev decisions and find spots to put money in good.

This is going to get expensive but barreling is best. It's very unlikely the 5 helped him and you can still represent strong hands going for straight value. I like $100, your bet is more bluff then value and you need to put the pressure on at some point.

The plan for the river is more complex unless you get a favorable card. You need to be ready to both check/evaluate and bluff on the river. I would plan on more check/evaluate.

I thought the 5 was a brick, and I needed to continue to put pressure on his draws, complete air, and maybe more unlikely JJ-99.

OTTH:

Rec limps utg, V (750) r25 in CO, folds to hero in the BB. Hero (covers) has 78 in the BB. Hero rr80, rec folds, V calls.

Flop (170) : K 8 3 -- Hero r60, v calls.

Turn (290): 5 -- Hero r125, v calls.

River (540): 5 -- Hero checks (pretty obvious check). V r125, Hero?

I like your overall line (3! pre -> c-bet good board for our range -> double barrel on good turns), but I hate your sizing all throughout. Likewise, I also like a fold pre. Folding is 0EV. 3! and playing the bluff game CAN be +EV, but could also go south very quickly.

That said, because of your small sizing I think you are inviting a lot of floats from his broadway hands, especially the combos with the A. I don’t think villain believes you have a K meaning he thinks his A/Q/J outs are probably live if he’s even behind.

Therefore, I’m shrug calling the river here. He’s going to have some flushes, sure, but he’s also going to have random broadways floating to pair up or bluff ’s. His river bet is fairly polarized to bluffs and flushes. Most villains aren’t going to value bet a K on the river here.

On one hand, that's a god awful river card.

On the other hand, you had no buisness being in this hand. I would fold here, he is bluffing close to 0% of the of the time with such a small bet into a huge pot. V is clearly looking for a crying call from the H here.

Results? This entire discussion basically comes down to firing with basically air for 3 streets, or folding pre. Don't think there is much more to say.

Annoying but give up on the river. Unless he shows up with 3X that isn't spades there is nothing you beat on the river. His floats should be giving up the turn.

If he does show up with a bluff mark him as leaning stationary. Don't try to bluff him much but value him when you do have it.