sir, with all do respect, you have no idea about what -EV means. there was nothing amazing about my call. not bragging at all, it was a tough decision, and I made the call. why so nitty in the responses tho? str8s good here often

22??? I've played with a lot of really bad players, but I cannot recall someone doing something this ******ed who is 500 BB's deep.

Given V's description, I think folding is the only option.

You are wrong, you are not as good as you think you are, and you would be wise to not let this one aberration convince you that you know what you're doing.

Well, I kept thinking about a busted heart draw with the description of this V.

That's his only plausible bluff, but there shouldn't be too many combos given pre and the hearts on the board. Even so, an over bet bluff shove for this much money is extremely, extremely rare. And our range looks incredibly strong on this board.

I just don't see villain trying to bluff us off a full house. Well, he did. But given villain description, there's no way to realistically think he would do that ex ante.

For starters, ive been a winning 2/5 player for 4 years. I beat these games with regularity and am well respected in the local games I play at. How on earth do you take ONE hand to determine how well I play or how good I think I am. Ive gone on downswings for weeks at a time. Im far from great, but at these levels, year in and year out I am a consistent winner with the sample size and hourly to prove it. I wouldn't be posting a hand in a LSNL thread if I thought I was too good to take advice from others. If im as arrogant as you say I am, I never would've posted for feedback. I think its an interesting hand with some creative plays on both end. just trying to get feedback. not bragging, as ive made this call and been wrong too many times to mention. get off your high horse and stop trying to gauge how good/bad of a player I am because of one hand

Wait, so you're telling us that V raised with 22 preflop, got 3-bet, called, then floated OOP for two streets that smack your range, just so he could jam the river as a bluff?

Two options here:
1. Villain is a mouth-breathing moron who learned poker by watching ESPN on mute.
2. Villain had a read on you as being waaaaay scared money in deep pots.

Those are the ONLY two explanations, btw.

There was no "creative play" by villain. Villain is awful. That is point one.

Second of all, a straight is not good here often. You beat 0 of villain's value range. You only beat an extremely rare suicide bluff.

when you have an underpair and come very close to making someone fold broadway, that's creative. sometimes bluffing in spots where one "could never ever be bluffing" is what makes a great bluff. how many people ITT thought it was a stone cold bluff. NOONE. that's why its creative. because its a situation where no one would ever think V was bluffing and he would get a lot of folds simply because no one ever thinks hes bluffing. except for me, except that time.

Secondly, I beat AA, AK (a lot), and a bare J

+1 LOL. like I said, never played with him before so no history other than him open folding KK OTF and rivering flushes. not sure how to assess him, other than strange, inconsistent, and behavior indicative of a losing player.

Also, define mouth breathing moron? I kinda love it haha

Villain almost got you to fold the bottom of your range by floating OOP with minimal equity on a board that smashes your range then launching a massive suicidal bluff. Impressive.

The reason no one thought it was a stone cold bluff is because it would be stupid for villain to be bluffing here. That makes villain stupid, not creative.


Villain is even stupider if he plays AA like this than 22. I guess AK is a bit better because he at least blocks KK, so it's a better bluff than 22.

Playing a bare jack like this is hard to fathom. C/c on the turn then over bet jam the river when his relative hand strength plummets? I guess it's an interesting spot to try to fold out a chop (although your range doesn't have too much Jx, depending on how your 3bet is perceived), but he's getting stacked by a full house so often. It's unlikely a non-brain dead villain would play Jx like this on the turn OR the river, much less both. Makes no sense.

I mean this whole thing is ridiculous, you created this thread to talk about how smart you are and how people here fold too much. Here is your last line describing villain

"Seems that everytime he makes a large river bet he has it. "

That's the last thing you say in your read in the OP. Given your own read of the guy, your call here is amazingly bad! Do you routinely call off guys that bomb the river with the goods for 200BB because you always have the soul read and know they decided to float you for two streets and spazz out with deuces?

It isn't even a believable hand someone would do this with, I've played against so many whales and never seen anyone spazz out for this many BB in such a weird way and spot, I would certainly never suspect anything close to this given the description.

Don't see how he ever has sets here, KK most likely 4b you preflop, and surely he reraises on such a wet flop and when you can have AA/AK. I think a lot of the time he has JJ/AJhh/AK. At the same time, when ppl call big bets quickly, they often have TPWK/draws, yet there's very few draws he can have. He has to be worried about you having a J OTT. His line is so weird I think you have to call it off, expecting to see a J/AK that's turned into a spaz bluff. FWIW, ime river tank on a scare card can be a bluff as well cos V is thinking about whether Hero will fold to a big bet/shove. Also, seems unlikely someone with the nut boat/quads is gonna smirk at hero and then overbet shove. I'd prob stare at them for a while and ask if they have quads/boat. Nice soul read in any case.

For me this is a fold.
Reason: You called the clock which normally is a sign of strength. Right after you showing strength he smirks and jams. This looks like he only waited for a sign of strength or weakness to make his move. Jamming here looks super-strong. Which makes it a fold for me.

As played I think he was trying to outlevel you (He's thinking you are thinking the stuff written above).
But it looks like he was 2 levels above your thinking instead of 1.

Just my 2 cents.

Results aside, I think calling the clock on him is a mistake. I don't agree it's a sign of strength, not in this instance anyway, not when villain is still first to act. If you were nutted, you would probably not try to rush someone into checking (which is essentially what you're doing, since his options are check or bet), when he's been tanking for this long.

500 bb thats a lol snap fold. If you had 100bb then it would be a snap call. However, this deep vilain will sometimes have QQ, 99,TT. As played it looked like he wanted to see how the board ran out before being sure he is good and shoved.

If this type of call is wrong most of the time, why keep making it? Especially with your reads on him.

It really boils down to the read on the villain. On the river our hand is pretty much a bluff catcher, looking at the numbers we have to call $2045 to win $2962 which is about 1.45 to 1, meaning he needs to be bluffing/value betting worse just under 41% of the time for this call to be break even.

Despite him showing up with a bluff this time, 99% of the player pool will not be bluffing 2x pot for 409bb on the river at a high enough frequency to make calling attractive here. You'd have to have a good read to make it correct imo and the information you gave us (usually has it betting big on rivers) is evidence that he won't be bluffing often enough to profitably call which is why everyone is saying to fold.

Matsah just destroying this thread. This is the easiest fold ever with the info you gave us. And how is it even a nitty fold we beat NONE of his value range. It seems like this might have happened at a 2cent/5cent.

Btw, it's pretty important to know whether he donk/overbet in those hands when he rivered those flushes.

Agree, a competent player shoving 2x pot here without a nuted hand here is pretty bad at 2/5 absent some dynamic fold

OP the reason why many posters here advice folding, its because they have the experience that low limit villains just have an extremely small bluffing frequenzy at the river. Especially deep stacked.

I sense a little bit lack of respect for other players knowledge when you get replies in this thread.

Its not because everyone on this forum is a nit they want to fold,its because their experience tells them its the correct action.

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The type of guy that posts a hand history where he gives a bunch of information that would imply that folding is clearly the best option just so that you he can pop up after some responses and brag that he ran into an unknowns ridiculous bluff and won a huge pot because he isn't capable of folding a straight.

I'm half kidding but seriously what was the point of posting this? Against an unknown at 2/5 this is a boat, usually a big one, like 98% of the time. You didn't give us any reads that would let us know otherwise but then laugh at everyone telling you to fold what is essentially a bluff catcher in a spot where any competent player would never be bluffing. His bluff is so bad in fact it might be HOF worthy.

By the way I'm not doubting you are a proven winner in this game, but this hand was a bad call that happened to turn out ok for you, it happens sometimes.

Competent doesn't mean open folding KK on the flop, or running up a monster stack by chasing flushes to the river and getting there. I think its rude to call me a mouth breathing moron quite frankly. And it wasn't a bad call at all. I was very close to folding, so im not bragging. I almost missed out on a 5k pot folding a str8 to an underpair and I get told how stupid I am for making the call. Results don't matter, I just don't understand how everyone says this is an automatic fold.

where do I show any disrespect to anyone?? because I don't agree with the majority of responses that makes me arrogant and disrespectful? I think it makes my point of view different. Why do you think im posting this in a forum? I am a winning player but I want to improve my game. If the consensus is I made a stupid call and got lucky, so be it. I guess that's the case. I guess with descriptions and only getting 1/1.45 odds this call is so more often the wrong one that makes it a huge -ev play. im trying to improve my game and because I didn't initially agree with everyone saying its an easy fold that makes me an idiot. this thread should be a learning and training tool for myself and others to get better. Not to jump down someones throat because they go against the 2+2 grain