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Old 12-29-2013, 08:53 PM   #1
FlyLikeABird
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2/5: 4bet pot vs drinker with history

Villain is noticeably drunk, talkative, and playing a ton of pots. First hand I saw him play when I sat down he raises 20$ utg 6 handed, got 3bet to 60$ by a 150$ stack, called and open jammed a Q82r board with Q6 off and won.

History with villain: a few hands before the hand in question, villain raised to 20$ in mp and I 3bet him with A6o. The flop came K94r he checked, I bet 60 and he flashes me a 9d and calls. Turn A he checks I check. River Q he bets 100$ I call and win. He becomes noticeably tilted and starts talking to his neighbor about how lucky I am for sucking out.

The hand: Villain limps (500$), a fishy player limps (800$), I raise to 30$ with JhJd (I cover.) btn calls and random shortstack sb goes all in for 70$. Villain calls, fishy limper calls, and I make it 180$. Villain says "I don't know why you are doing that, I have a hand that can crack AA or KK" and then calls, fish folds.

Flop Q92cc (530$) villain doesn't think long before jamming for 400$. He gets quieter after making the bet.

Hero?
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Old 12-29-2013, 10:34 PM   #2
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Re: 2/5: 4bet pot vs drinker with history

Why did you make it $180? Just shove pre and take the huge overlay against the short stack.
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Old 12-29-2013, 10:44 PM   #3
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Re: 2/5: 4bet pot vs drinker with history

Ship it pre, your raise to 180 is pretty bad. It's like ~1/2 pot sized raise.

I'd fold the flop. I think he genuinely thinks you have AA or KK and aren't folding.

So fold.

Also, fwiw, and I barely think it matters, you block JT.
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Old 12-29-2013, 10:52 PM   #4
peac b the journey
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Yeah tv is right def way to small on the sizing pre... As played IMO it's a call a huge amount if the time. If he had a queen wouldn't he check...
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Old 12-29-2013, 10:53 PM   #5
peac b the journey
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Jv
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Old 12-29-2013, 10:53 PM   #6
peac b the journey
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Vt! Stop drinking
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Old 12-30-2013, 12:36 AM   #7
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Do we really want to jam pre? We are almost 200bb deep vs two big fish who give a lot of action post flop and will likely call a 4 bet. I do agree I should have gone bigger though
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Old 12-30-2013, 12:40 AM   #8
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Re: 2/5: 4bet pot vs drinker with history

Fold. What is your stack size pre flop?
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Old 12-30-2013, 12:42 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyLikeABird View Post
Do we really want to jam pre? We are almost 200bb deep vs two big fish who give a lot of action post flop and will likely call a 4 bet. I do agree I should have gone bigger though
You're 100bb deep so I'd shove pre or at least make a raise that's committing that they're more likely to call pre

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Old 12-30-2013, 12:43 AM   #10
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Re: 2/5: 4bet pot vs drinker with history

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyLikeABird View Post
Do we really want to jam pre? We are almost 200bb deep vs two big fish who give a lot of action post flop and will likely call a 4 bet. I do agree I should have gone bigger though
If you're not shoving pre then make it $350 and shove any flop that has less than two overcards. The chances of at least one overcard hitting is like 70%. Now you've put yourself in a tough spot instead of letting your opponents make the mistake.
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Old 12-30-2013, 12:45 AM   #11
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Why would we jam pre? That seems stupid. We want him to stick around. Esp given his huge range.

Also, his bet on the flop should be $320 if he started the hand with $500.

Raise size pre seems as we can get stacks in on every flop with less than a pot sized bet.

As for the flop I puke a little. Then flip a coin.
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Old 12-30-2013, 12:54 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch View Post
Why would we jam pre? That seems stupid. We want him to stick around. Esp given his huge range.

Also, his bet on the flop should be $320 if he started the hand with $500.

Raise size pre seems as we can get stacks in on every flop with less than a pot sized bet.

As for the flop I puke a little. Then flip a coin.
You don't think hes calling a bigger raise pre?

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Old 12-30-2013, 12:57 AM   #13
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Sorry initial post was wrong. He bet 400 on the flop so initial stack size was 580
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Old 12-30-2013, 01:15 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke0424 View Post
You don't think hes calling a bigger raise pre?

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I don't know. I want playing against him.
Sure there could be merit in a bigger bet but his sizing wasn't that bad. I think anywhere in the $170-$230 range is fine.

I just think shoving is pretty stupid.
That's like $800 into ~240.
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Old 12-30-2013, 01:17 AM   #15
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Re: 2/5: 4bet pot vs drinker with history

Its only $500 effective

I think its far from "stupid"

I do think betting like $250-300 and shoving most flops is more optimal. Unless he's a super maniac and will call your shove just for the hell of it.
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Old 12-30-2013, 01:26 AM   #16
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He's probably telling the truth with his preflop speech and jamming a flush draw with his SC
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Old 12-30-2013, 01:26 AM   #17
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? We are 800 effective against one of the 70$ limp callers (not villain but a fish)
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Old 12-30-2013, 12:12 PM   #18
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Re: 2/5: 4bet pot vs drinker with history

Arr in.
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Old 12-30-2013, 12:40 PM   #19
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Shoving pre doesn't seem optimal.

As played its hard to believe you're beat, I hate having to call off vs this player.

I probably play like a p*ssy and fold....
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Old 12-30-2013, 12:48 PM   #20
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Re: 2/5: 4bet pot vs drinker with history

Yeah 180 is waaaaay too small. And I believe his speech and would call with or without it, expect to dodge his bull**** draw and win.
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Old 12-30-2013, 03:08 PM   #21
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Re: 2/5: 4bet pot vs drinker with history

Effective stacks are $800 (ignoring the short-stacked SB) if I'm reading the OP correctly.

Agree with everyone else that $180 is not nearly large enough for your 4-bet. The pot is ~$310 with your 70 in there. I think I raise to 275 and get it in against the psycho/reevaluate if the fish springs to life with something crazy.
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Old 12-30-2013, 04:17 PM   #22
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Re: 2/5: 4bet pot vs drinker with history

4bet is too small. I'll go for around 300-350$ normally unless I want the said villain to come along. Even then would go for 250 or so to create SPR of almost 1.

I believe that the drunk guy is having some medium suited connector/1 gapper kind of hands most often. He has a draw and is there to gamble. I'm pretty much snapping it there.

Re his value hands, I am struggling what he can have. KQ/99 would probably ship it pre (that how i see drunk aggros playing in my games). 22 is possible. He can do that with 9T, 98, 97 too.

So all in all, I am very happy to put my money in the middle. If he called pre with Q6s, then he takes my money but I feel our hand dominates his range big time.
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Old 12-30-2013, 04:33 PM   #23
Avaritia
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Re: 2/5: 4bet pot vs drinker with history

Which card is the non ?

Trying to decide if this is a fist pump call or a so so call.

Not folding.
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Old 12-31-2013, 01:01 AM   #24
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Re: 2/5: 4bet pot vs drinker with history

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Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Which card is the non ?

Trying to decide if this is a fist pump call or a so so call.

Not folding.
4 was the non club.

I ended up folding the hand. My first instinct was to call but seeing him open jam a weak top pair hand in the previous 3bet pot I witnessed skewed my decision to a fold. In that hand, he also gave the whole "BE careful, I can crack your big pair" speech before jamming. Against most villains I'm just calling it off here since I almost always expect them to c/c it off here with a queen or better rather than just open jamming, which typically is much more indicative of a draw or some random crap like middle pair that doesn't know what to do.

I stoved a range that includes all suited queens, all reasonable offsuit queens, sets/2pairs and all flush draws/OESDs and against that range we only have 27% equity. Howver, I think given the 3bet pot we played just before this hand and a possible drunk tilt factor this should have been a fist pump call, but seeing him open jam a weak top pair earlier definitely threw me off.
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