No history between hero and villain 1, he is somewhat new. Villain just sat down, seems to be very comfortable, talking about Borgata event.

Villain 2 is playing atc and calling very light. Not lag, just kinda bad.

Hero has not done anything out of the ordinary, has not shown any hands or had any interesting spots.

Hero 600 villain covers.

Hero dealt kq off mp raises to 15. V2 flats from button. V1 3! 70. Hero?

Probably should fold both Pre and here... As the thread title indicates, I did not... I was thinking he was 3 betting light to isolate v2 and thus that it was a good possibility that he was light here.

Hero 4! 155, v2 folds, v1 jams (covers).

Am I priced in? Is my thinking way off?

You have no reads so just fold to the 3!, if you are going to 4! then 4! fold.

I don't mind the mp open with KQo, though I would have folded pre. I'm just a nit. However, I think the 4bet is just burning money away. It's a horrible spot to chase V2's dead money. And I don't know why you're even thinking about calling the jam. Fold. Now. Should have folded to the 3bet.

Fold Pre

Fold to 3bet

Fold to shove

/thread

not opening PF with KQos is awful if anything we should raise more

What the hell don't open fold pre. Fold to 3b tho with no read.

Thought hero was in EP so don't mind the open. Def folding to the 3bet though

I ended up folding to the 4 bet. I guess my bigger question is the following: is my thinking that v1 is 3! Light to ISO v2 way off. Even if it isn't way off is the risk of 4! Light here just too great w/o reads.

Also, how do you adjust your play after making a play like this?

You have no history with v1 and have no reason to believe he is light here. Yes... your thinking is way off.

Adjust now by playing a tighter range for a bit and not 4betting light.

His light 3bet range has u beat

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Never 4betting here unless we like to giftwrap chips. I am okay with flatting with this if villain is oop.

Yes, it is way off, for at least 3 reasons (in my experience):

1) You have no idea whether V1 is the kind of player that will 3bet light at all.

2) Even if V1 will 3bet light, you have no idea if he is the kind of player that will do this out of position. Most of the people I've played with who have it in them to make this move won't do it out of position against an MP open.

3) Even if V1 will 3bet light out of position, when most people do this, they aren't trying to isolate a caller, they're trying to isolate the original raiser--that is, you, not V2. V1 probably isn't thinking, "OK, I'm sure this guy I don't have any reads on will fold to my reraise so I can play heads-up against the guy who called his open." But that seems to be the thought process you are ascribing to him. He has to know that if he accidentally isolates you and you have him beat, he could get himself into trouble--but he's done it anyway.

With no reads, I fold this every time and don't give it a second thought.

The 3x open killed this for you. Open to 20 (and open folding would have been horrible by the way)

The 4 bet to 155 / fold was fine (you were not committed) however I would refrain from such higher level play until you at least know that the villain is capable. So much money is lost at live poker giving others the capability of 3 betting light when they are really nits overall at 3 betting esp from OOP.

IIRC, it was DGAF who said most of the time if you feel you are being played back at (without a ton of meta) you're not...they have the goods...This especially rings true in this situation since you guys have no history or lengthy time together at the table

Yeah the 3x open killed any shot of a plausible 4b.

I open to 20 or 25 in 2/5 games (+ 0.5bb/limper, I like to encourage calls). And open to 40 in 5/10.

4betting an obvious squeeze is standard. Should know what you're doing and your villain. Sickos will ship light on you (albeit that is rare).

FOLD! Even villains light 3 betting range of AJ and better has you crushed, and his 5 bet shove range has to be AK and better with AA, and KK very likely here. Maybe sometimes QQ. Villain just sat down, so read less we have to give him some credit for a hand. Also, your an unknown to him, and he's never 5 bet shoving an unknown player 4 betting on a bluff.

Fold to 3 bet, and your not priced in to calling given Villains 5 bet shove range

jesus christ if you are folding pre KQo in MP in these games then you must be very self-conscious about your post-flop game.

fold to the 3b

Grunch:

No hx with V1? Trivial Fold pre after 3b. KQo plays like **** OOP against unknown 3ball. Def. fold after you 4b and get jammed on. We are flipping only with JJ out of his entire 5b shove range

On the bright side, I was hit with the deck over the course of the next two hours. Perhaps if nothing else, the 4 bet fold got me paid in future hands.

Standard open, standard fold to 3b. 4betting is levelling yourself into thinking he's squeezing a lot of the time. Once you've witnessed a light 3b with 3-5s from the blinds then
We can 4b/fold often

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-it

Pre:
I hate KQo way more than the average person of my level of looseness in LLSNL. I auto-fold it in early seats (but then, unless I am trying to run over a table, I'm usually quite tight in the first 2 seats).
Aside: Vs a maniac, I'd rather have any ace to hero call A high with.

However, Opening in MP is standard unless your table is way-way-way too good (in which case, you should be on the table-change list).

Open size:
I am unsure we need to open to 20 instead of 15--if 20 is alot more likely to get you isolation, than 20 a good idea; if it doesn't matter, 15 is fine (depends on your table). If 4 people are calling regardless, I'm probably limping that hand, but given that I'm a bigtime limper there's alot of benefits that most people don't have for me there.

Vs. a 3bet.
2 things matter alot here: 1) How good we think he is 2) Your Image
Theres a minimum skill level required for a non-maniac to 3bet light. And vs a standard field its quite high--this is not the internet. If we don't think non-maniac villain is quite good, than he ALWAYS has something solid here. Most players aren't even 3balling TT or AQo off out of the blinds. A standard 3bet range has you crushed.
2) Your image.
You seem to think that this villain is capable of a light 3ball. Ok. If he is, than we have to consider you as a target. Do you have LAG tendencies? Are you opening more than 33% out of MP with a raise? Have you demonstrated solid barrelling postflop?
--the best targets for a light 3ball are wide-openers who do not demonstrate top-level skills (bad and mediocre LAGs).
Would your play in the past hour trigger in a villains mind that you are such a player?

Judging by this OP, we don't have enough knowledge to for sure say he can 3ball light--but it may be possible. And for sure OP has not described himself as LAGgy. As such...

Just fold.

Fold faster
Fold yesterday
Fold before you consider writing such a post.
And then fold some more.


I can't remember who originally made the comment, but, write the following down on your smartphone and stare at it before every session:
"Most players will open far wider than you would ever imaging, but 3bet far narrower than you would ever guess"