Hero - ($1k) At the table for about 40 minutes. Have 3 bet pf about 3 times during this time period. Just recently won a pot squeezing AQ from the bb and stacking a field caller w/ 88 on a Q66T board in a hu pot. Won the other 3b pots pf or otf uncontested. Haven't been involved too much otherwise so my image is tag for the most part.

Villain 1 - ($700) Don't have too much info on him. He's in his early 30s and complaining about running bad in a fish like manner. Vpip doesnt seem like anything out of the norm from a typical 2/5 villain. I dont think ive seen him 3 bet so far. Haven't seen any showdowns from him.

Villain 2 - ($900) Middle aged Indian guy. Thinking spewtard. Witnessed a hand earlier where I wasn't at the table but sweating my friend as I walked by. Indian guy bet/3bets river on a 3 flush coordinated paired board with air and shows the table. Happens to get my friend to fold the nut flush. He's straddling whenever he gets the chance and has a very high vpip%. Doesn't really like to fold

The Hand:

Hero (UTG) opens $20 w/ AK
Villain 1 (CO) 3 bets to $60
Villain 2 (BB) Calls $60
Hero raises to $200
Villain 1 (CO) looks extremely pained and calls
Villin 2 (BB) calls

Flop (~$600) T88

Villain 2 checks
Hero?
Thoughts on their ranges?

V1 has ~$500 left, V2 has ~$700 left, hero covers both

I'm assuming when you said Villain1 checks? flop went ccc? Since Villain1 is CO?

Typo. V2 checks

If it was V2 who checked, and V1 is still to act, I just c/f. His range is primarily overpairs and I don't think you can bluff him off them. With spewtard waiting in the weeds betting could be trouble.

V1 has a pair here IMO JJ-KK..I don't even think he has AKs too often given his 3b frequency.

I don't think he is folding very much of that range on this flop.

V2 I assume is the one who checked?

Grunch I think 4b should be larger like 250.
As played there is nothing wrong with c/f . Not much is going to fold.

Can you explain your thought process on the 4b? I don't think it's necessarily bad, but my gut reaction was to flat the 3b and try to take advantage of our relative position. I assume you wanted the CO to fold and BB to call, but given that we haven't seen CO 3b yet I don't know if he folds enough to warrant blowing up the pot and putting you in a really rough SPR spot when you miss, like what happened.

Villain2 could have anything really, but i don't think he has a flush draw nor a 10. As pot is already $600, he'd shoved there. May be sitting on an 8, but doubtful. More putting him on 2 overcards.

Villain1, i'm putting him on JJ-KK. I don't think he'll call the $200 pre with anything less.

i'd C/F on the flop.

Actually dont know why i made it 200 if he 3bet to 60. I agree 3b sizing should be closer to 250. I think V1s 3b sizing may have been smaller but I just cant remember.

...I know for a fact my 4b was to 200 though.

As for my thought process w/ the 4b I think its pretty standard. I want to play AK aggressively OOP against COs middling to high pairs + other possible parts of his range and I also want to get value/spaz equity from bb

Of course I might face tough decisions postflop but that's part of the game.

What range do you put CO on when he 3bs and how much of it is he calling the 4b with?

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 42.870% 30.56% 12.31% 226021668 91093338.00 { AKo }
Hand 1: 57.130% 44.82% 12.31% 331506984 91093338.00 { TT+, AQs+, AKo }

or here's a slightly wider one:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 48.250% 40.06% 08.19% 469228548 95886210.00 { AKo }
Hand 1: 51.750% 43.56% 08.19% 510214968 95886210.00 { 88+, AQs+, AQo+ }

And he has position on you, so I'd definitely be hoping for a fold from him if I 4b. I generally assume that people who I haven't seen 3b yet and don't seem like solid regs will have a tight 3b range; is that not good practice?

With V2 still in the hand I can't fold.

Easy shove on flop.

For value against V2.

For semi bluff against V1.

C/f on this flop is terribad for your image. If you really c/f either take a walk or table change.

Yea I'd agree with this assumption for the most part but I don't think his 3bet range is necessarily ultra tight. Its also definitely not absurd to put some non premium hands in his 3b range.

In this spot I think its a 4bet and not really close especially when you consider the BB in the hand. Whether or not I hope CO calls or folds middling pairs doesn't really make a difference. If he calls with these hands and were in a HU pot I have initiative with a strong perceived range + equity to improve/turn barreling opportunities w/ favorable runouts on a lot of flops I whiff.

Yea villain 2 is a spewtard but a thinking one. I'll make this clear... never ever am I expecting him to call with worse on this flop

This^

Don't hate a shove, though. I just don't think V1 can fold his JJ/QQ very often. Your image is pretty aggro, with a shown AQ squeeze, so I think it will be pretty easy for him to "put you on AK."

What part of V1 range do you expect him to 3b/flat pre and then fold with a bloated pot??

What value do you get out of V2 that he ch/calls this flop jam?

Not sure why this is so bad for OP's image or that it necessarily matters against this lineup/stakes.

I disagree that a 4bet is standard vs a player who we haven't seen 3bet and who just 3bets an UTG open. I actually think a fold is much preferred in this spot than a 4bet especially considering stack sizes. The deeper we are the more apt I am to flat with AK type of hands.

As played shove is fairly standard on this board. (But neither shove nor check/fold are horrible IMO).

Don't like the 4bet against a rec fish and his 3betting range, especially when he's been card dead. Clear flat imo.

As played I c/eval and probably gii with V2 on good turn cards.

I'm all for a 4B in this type of spot usually, however I'd definitely think twice about it here given we raised UTG and we have no info on V 3B range (by default i'd be assuming its pretty tight).

+1

Nah I actually like the 4b now that OP explained his reasoning. I agree with y'all that flat is better than a 4b if we're trying to optimize against the CO 3bettor, but if BB is going to call the 4b almost all the time then we can't miss an opportunity to have him put more money into the pot at a severe equity disadvantage, even if CO is entitled to a slightly larger portion of it than we are.

If we force it AI with a shove, and everyone joins, we're $700 to win $2500, needing just 28% equity to be good.

If we only get V1 to go, we're $500 to win $1600, 31%. We've got 27% against [JJ+,AK] so all we need is a small amount of FE to make it right. But we can further discount AA (and maybe some KK) because of preflop lines. So as long as V1 doesn't have all available combos of AA, and is willing to let go of some of his [JJ-QQ,AK] combos, we're good.

If we only get V2 to go, we're $700 to win $2000, 35%. Given the description in the OP, I'm more then happy to stack off against V2.

Its close enough that even 10% FE from either villain makes it a good shove.

However, Andy has since adjusted his read on V2. Now, given the adjusted read on V2, I'm inclined to give him more credit for AA exactly (two cold calls preflop). With the revised read on V2, I think check and continue only against V1, but feel very happy that we have the best relative position to see what V2 does.

If it checks through, and we miss on the turn... puke and puke again.

V2 isn't doing this with AA. I also expect him to check his entire range otf

I mean, re: V1, you don't have many reads on him and you haven't seen him 3-bet yet.

I would assume he's quite strong pre-flop. And I can't really get my head around 4-betting pre-flop. You're definitely not stacking off pre-flop against V1, are you? But 4-bet/folding almost 30% of effective stacks doesn't seem like a great plan. And like you mentioned, your 4-bet sizing is a bit small... but had you 4-bet more, you're putting yourself in a really terrible situation facing a 5-bet.

Is the 4-bet itself profitable? I'm not really sure. He might not 3-bet/fold often at all.

I think flatting pre-flop is not terrible, but I'll bet there are strong feelings about that. You have position on BB. It's 40 more into a pot of 140.

I'm really not sure tbh. It's a tough spot.

As played, I'd check the flop. I think you'll end up check/folding to V1 a lot.

Thanks for the responses.

Results:

That's probably one of the cards I would call off against V2 on. High variance but +EV.

I definitely tanked a while on the turn. Given the fact V2 could have just about any pair (and the very slim chance v1 has a weird slow play) I couldn't justify a call. Not getting a great price either as his shove is a slight over bet.