Villain: Asian aggro who has been playing something like 65/30. Has been playing super LAGGY in LP. Watched him 3bet a MP open of 20 to 65 and triple barrel an
A99 3 J board with A3 offsuit. He's been unbelievably active.

Hero: Has played like 1-2 hands. Nothing really to go off of.

~$800 effective

I open in MP with 1010 to $25. Guy on my left flats and villain bumps it up to $85. I thought about reraising but I figured I let him barrel off on clean flops. Guy to my left calls.

Flop($262) 5 8 9

Checks thru to villain and he says all-in! I ask the dealer twice to confirm he says all-in... I glance at villain and he's looking up at the sky, doesn't seem interested after he overbet ships.. and I'm just so confused at this point. Couldn't even possibly come up with a hand that beats a pair at this point. Is it wrong of me to think that someone who's clearly capable at poker will overbet jam with anything other than some type of draw?

What do you guys do in situations like this and you can't possibly make up a range/hand for villain?

Hero should call/fold?

i think this is a fold. yes, hes been very aggressive, even too aggressive pre flop and likely post flop. but we havent seen him make any huge overbets yet. i think this is either a flush draw or JJ+. against a range of FDs, you're probably only a 55% favorite or so, since he often has one or two overs or a big combo draw. add in overpairs, and you're roughly a 35% underdog

I definitely agree. While you are likely ahead, do you really want to gamble your remaining $700+ stack in hopes that your hand will hold with two cards still to come? There are plenty of hands where V has two overcards or is on a flush draw, or even on a straight draw. I don't feel comfortable gambling a large stack with one pair on a draw heavy board.....fwiw.

I feel you can get your money in better elsewhere.

Grunch.

Eww... I mean... For you to profitably call here he has to have a bunch of air/non spade AK/overs. I didn't do the math, but if his range is over pairs and spade draws, calling would be -EV me thinks.

But yeah... I can see crazy asian guy over betting here with JJ+ and spade draws...

How light has he really been 3 betting? TBH this situation kinda sucks... I don't really want to get in $800 pre with TT, but I also don't want to see a flop OOP to two players. You could just set mine... but that seems kinda snug with TT against a player with this description. Tough spot, but I probably fold.

I have a lot of trouble playing villains like this. I recently re-read the thread "maniacs are digesting my bankroll" which is in the Best Of and linked below. Hate to diverge from the previous posters, but my response is based on my interpretation of the thread.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...rlags-1175663/

First we have to assume the Villain truly is a maniac and 3betting frequently, generally beating us up and pushing us off hands. He smells tightness/weakness and jumps all over it. With that in mind I think there are a few options:

1) Shove pre. These guys love action, are very difficult to play postflop, and your range is often way ahead of theirs. Embrace the variance and coinflip here.

2) Flat pre and evaluate flop. I think this is the exact kind of flop we want to stack off with TT versus a maniac. There are tons of draws, lower pair+draws, and overcards+draws combos out there. Call as played.

3) Fold pre, and move tables. I can definitely understand not wanting to get involved with a lot of high-variance play, especially as a beginner (like me). But if there is a true hyperlag at the table, you will be often forced into situations where you will have to make decisions like 1 or 2 above. Or just keep letting him beat you up until you have the nuts.

What I find truly difficult about options 1 and 2 is that we are 160BB deep. But if this villain is truly a maniac (i.e. if he is frequently 3betting and NEVER checking the flop) I'm not sure if we can ask for a better situation than this flop.

Also just want to note that he triple barreled with TP-no kicker (a "value hand" for him) in a 3bet pot, but he is just shoving all-in here. This makes me think if he had a value hand like KK he would put in a normal bet. An overbet shove would look more like a draw in that case... but I do have a leak of too often putting villains on draws.

I'm all for hearing out all the logic thats coming into play but can someone answer why anyone would overship with a hand like KK or AA with the spade? Its such an lol spot to overship and possibly get snapped off by better..

Is it possible that this villain was so f-ing savvy that he knew I was competent enough to think into his overbet jam as ONLY a bluff/draw and call off with an underpair to his?

^ Its beyond me that players are this savvy.. am i not giving him enough credit?

+ Shoving preflop is NOT an option unless i really dislike money. Please don't shove preflop with worse than QQs for >150bbs

Grunch

From a strict soul-read POV, per Caro this indicates strength. V doesnt want to appear confrontational, is taking a very non-threatening position to induce a call. Fold.

I had a similar hand last year with a young aggro asian kid:

I raise pre with 77 get a few callers, flop is 873hh, I cbet and V ships allin for ~150BB - he had T9hh.

Obviously my hand was super strong and it was an easy decision, but I think a lot of the time this is going to be AKss/AQss/JTss/A5ss etc. That being said, our hand is still a 45% dog to a range of only combo draws so a fold is probably best.

I think I fold. Even against hands you currently beat, his equity is better.

Plus you have the guy behind you to worry about.

Given the low investment you have in this hand and the fact that one guy is behind you I would fold. The only reason is because TT in not in very good shape vs the bottom of his range (some combo draw with 40-55% equity against you). This is one of the spots where something like QQ+ is much stronger as an overpair to this board.

He might understand his image is FOS and given his body language (looking away, probably fairly comfortable) he either has you crushed or has a hand he doesn't care what you do and enjoys getting it in with

One more note, you block a lot of the combo draws with two Tens. Fold.

Step #1 is to figure out what equity you need in this hand. You need 43%. Step #2 is to look at how we're doing against varies hands. Against a lower pair we have 78% equity. Against a FD with overs, we have 46% equity. Against 2 pair, we have 30% equity. An overpair, we have 9%. We hold blockers to a straight and we're crushed by a set.

Given all of this, he has to have a lower pair or air a high % of the time to make it worth while. The deciding final factor is that this flop hits your range extremely hard. You can easily have sets here or an OP. If he's lasted playing any length of time, he knows OP are likely to call a lot. Therefore, I'd fold. The "tell" isn't determining, but pushes the balance over more towards folding.

With ~$700 remaining stacks and $262 in the pot, this "lol overship" makes money if he gets you both to fold more than 55% of the time, even if he's always a 3:1 underdog when called:

(0.55*262) + (0.45*0.25*962) - (0.45*0.75*-700) = +$16

Nobody's calling that size overbet without a set or a straight, and he knows it. He's up against 99/88/55/76 way less than 45% of the time in that spot, and he knows that, too.

It's an extremely high-variance way to play poker, but that doesn't mean it's not profitable.

4b gii pre

villain is a dumbass for shipping like this. you guys are calling pre wider than usual and villain is wasting his position on both of you imo.

You need to decide if it's a big fish who's spewing around, and probably got lolexcited with KK/AA, or if it's some hotshot that likes putting people to the test.

if it's a hotshot, as played, call and embrace variance. if you lose so what, just buy in to cover

Edit: 4b/gii here is the easiest 4-5% (probably more depending) you'll ever make when villain actually does shove.

When he does call (and he will a ton) you crush his range. Most guys aren't tricky enough to flat 4b with nutted hands, and they have no problem calling wide ip with all sorts of dominated crap.

It doesn't matter what he does, he's huge dog.

I would've 4bet, but as played I call and then cry when I lose to JT