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2/5 3bet pot, Kd7d (BB) on Q732rnbw. 2nd barrel or give up? 2/5 3bet pot, Kd7d (BB) on Q732rnbw. 2nd barrel or give up?

05-04-2013 , 08:37 AM
Friday night around 10pm, 2/5. Table seems not so strong probably because last night there was a 5/10 table played for around 18 hours and good regs are not in the casino now.

Hero is in for 1000 and got eventually up from -500 winning AK and JJ in 3bet pots. Also hero Was seen 3bet four times in last two hours, once showed JJ, another time AK. twice took it down without showdown. But lost bigger pot in a hand on 10xJx3s10h8x, where he donked with KQo on the river into guy who tried to take down the pot on flop and turn with smallish bets which looked like Jx. Hero called both times with intention to steal it on most of the rivers, but misplayed the hand completely. The biggest mistake hero made was he has bet only 60 percent of pot on the river. This bet he called with angry face and actually caught hero bluffing. Villain from the hand below hasn't seen this hand though.

Villain (1020) is around 40-45, earring, longer hair, weak passive, limp-calls a ton, raises only sometimes pf, usually to 20 but from what hero saw, it was almost ATC as the limps (called Q6o in CO to raise etc). He plays 7-8 out of 10 hands pf, but get only to maybe 20 percent of showdowns. On flop he donks a lot with any part of the flop like KQ on aq9 against aggressor in 4way pot, or q6o on J64 rnbw etc. Usually check/calls on turns or check/folds or bets the same amount as donked on the flop and folds to aggression. Hero played with him a hand, where hero 3bet squeezed to 90 from BTN against mp raise to 20 and hj caller, villain in question called in bb. Flop Ac3c6h, villain donks 100 into 240, hero min raises to 200. Villain calls. Turn 8d. villain checks, hero bets allin 360 into 640, villain folds.

Hand:
Villain limps utg, loose bad player raises to 30 from mp (normal sizing, saw him raise that with AJo and fold to 3bet often) and raises without thinking about position too much, tight passive calls in HJ, BTN loose passive calls. Hero (1300) in BB with Kd7d raises to 130 (should have raised to 160+...). Villain calls, others fold.

Flop (350) Qs7d3c, Hero cbets 150, villain calls.
Turn (650) Qs7d3c2h, Villain has 740 left. Hero?

Without a doubt, I hate my sizings here pf and on the flop. I already put it again to my list of leaks. However as played, I didn't feel like putting 2nd barrel here, because I couldn't put 3rd if he calls (it would be so small, that he has to call, if calls the turn). And I was afraid that shove on the turn will look too bluffy to him and he will talk himself to call "because you have AK" and he could call it with AQ/KQ/QJ/Q10/Q9, or even JJ/1010/99/88. What are your toughts?

Hypotetically, if I 3bet pf to 160 and bet 240 on the flop, so the pot would be 890 and villain would have 620 left, do you shove or check/fold on the turn?
2/5 3bet pot, Kd7d (BB) on Q732rnbw. 2nd barrel or give up? Quote
05-04-2013 , 09:17 AM
Why not put out $320? You have a player who rarely gets to showdown right? Dont let him get there for free. You very well could have the same pair with a better kicker. If you dont like him calling the Turn then you can still evaluate the River without putting in the 'extra' money by shoving this Turn.

On the flip side, you could put out $420 which would 'force' him to make a decision. Why cant you have AQ? Even if he has 1010 here it would still be difficult for him to call a River shove ... or is your image that bad?

You're in a tough spot with this hand OOP, agree your Flop bet looks weak here and may contribute to another 'crying' call from one of your opponents that ends up winning. GL
2/5 3bet pot, Kd7d (BB) on Q732rnbw. 2nd barrel or give up? Quote
05-04-2013 , 10:36 AM
Grunch

Alright then... So I think that your list of leaks should probably be topped by the fact that you seems to be regularly bluffing with your whole stack in spots where if you get called you have almost no equity. Just curious, in the example hand where you "squeezed" and min-raised flop and then bet turn all-in for $360, what hand did you have? Were you bluffing? If you were bluffing, that is a really bad spot to bluff. Also, in the other example hand where you had KQ and bluffed the river, your sizing wasn't a leak, it was the bet itself that as a leak. What exactly did you expect to get folds from?

I'm not horribly opposed to squeezing from the blinds when there is a bunch of dead money in the pot, but this really isn't a good spot. If you have 3bet pre 4 times in the past 2 hours then it is definitely not a good spot. You will almost always be getting called by at least one player. This results in a bloated pot with you OOP with a weak hand. Not a good situation. As played, I don't mind betting, but now just c/f. Do you know how many times I have bluffed all-in in the past year of play? Almost zero. Do you know how many times my all-in bet's get called? Very frequently.

Last edited by ThaNEWPr0fess0r; 05-04-2013 at 10:43 AM.
2/5 3bet pot, Kd7d (BB) on Q732rnbw. 2nd barrel or give up? Quote
05-04-2013 , 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20
Why not put out $320? You have a player who rarely gets to showdown right? Dont let him get there for free. You very well could have the same pair with a better kicker. If you dont like him calling the Turn then you can still evaluate the River without putting in the 'extra' money by shoving this Turn.

On the flip side, you could put out $420 which would 'force' him to make a decision. Why cant you have AQ? Even if he has 1010 here it would still be difficult for him to call a River shove ... or is your image that bad?

You're in a tough spot with this hand OOP, agree your Flop bet looks weak here and may contribute to another 'crying' call from one of your opponents that ends up winning. GL
How can his opponent have 7x with a weaker kicker here? Did he call the 3bet with J7? Again, I'm not trying to bluff someone off of TT or JJ in this spot. If I were OTB and we both had $1500 behind... well that's a different story.
2/5 3bet pot, Kd7d (BB) on Q732rnbw. 2nd barrel or give up? Quote
05-04-2013 , 02:18 PM
Why are you betting the flop? Not a rhetorical question.
2/5 3bet pot, Kd7d (BB) on Q732rnbw. 2nd barrel or give up? Quote
05-04-2013 , 02:30 PM
FWIW, I don't think was a bad spot to squeeze preflop if Hero's reads are correct about the original raiser having mostly decent starting hands like AJo that he usually folds to a 3-bet. As it turns out, the original raiser did fold, so the read was right.

My only concern preflop is that Hero said the first caller in HJ is a tight-passive. He might very well have a strong hand that was played originally as a flat-call. Nevertheless, it is still a decent-good spot for a squeeze.

Hero already said his preflop sizing was bad.
2/5 3bet pot, Kd7d (BB) on Q732rnbw. 2nd barrel or give up? Quote
05-04-2013 , 04:38 PM
ThaNEWPr0fess0r:
I agree the KQ hand was misplayed and I should have raise the guy on the flop or turn. The thing with sizing...I meant, that he would fold to bigger bet - he wouldn't call something like 400-450 into 450. But with that said, you are right and I shouldn't be in that situation. But with better size of the bet on the river he folds the Jx all the time and sometimes even a 10. I don't know about you, but when I see someone check/call on flop and turn where flush draw is present, and then he donks almost potsize bet on the river when flush comes, I usually see folds - even from worse players. So it was my bad play, because I was drawing to straight and was supposed to better represent the clubs - I would to it again, but maybe would raise on the turn when the 10 came. But it's a different hand, where I think his betting screamed Jx hand.

In the hand were I went allin, I've had AK. I don't like minraising that much, but I figured, that if he has the A, he calls and then will call again on the turn. If he doesn't have an A and I just call, he will just check/fold on the turn anyway. This way I thought he can commit himself into calling with bad ace on the turn or even call the 100 with some pair (what he probably had) and check/fold on the turn.
2/5 3bet pot, Kd7d (BB) on Q732rnbw. 2nd barrel or give up? Quote
05-04-2013 , 04:48 PM
ATsai: The thing is, I was surprised he called here pf. Not that he didn't call a 3bet before from BB or some other bad position when he didn't have much invested in the pot, but usually it was about 60 to 100. 130 as bad sizing it was, seemed a little too big from him to call with 5 invested.

My thoughts on the flop was, that he was the kind of player who could call with hands such as 45s to QJs, also with 22-99 (would raise 1010+ from UTG here I think). So I put him on all suited connectors from 45s till QJs and all pairs 22-99.

I must admit, that I was little lost and was probably betting somehow automatically, just "because that's what I would do with JJ+/AQ+". I was afraid to check and face too big bet. Also I thought I have some FE and there were cards I would like to see on the turn - A/K/7/diamond on which I could fire another barrel. But when turn is complete brick, I wasn't sure what to do. I didn't put him on something like AQ/KQ, because he doesn't limp it ever. Also he would raise with QQ/KK/AA pf with so many people behind able to call - he was bad but understood things like playing AA against 5 people isn't good.

So there are few suited queens like QJ/Q10, maybe Q9, then pairs like 22-99, other 7x hands probably something like 75/76/78/79 suited. I found stack sizes gross, because I didn't like 330 into 650, and then check/calling brick river in the hand, where I can imagine him having a 7 a lot of times. so I just wasn't sure what to do on the turn. And I'm not sure now.

About the play pf, I still think it was perfect spot to squeeze, but the raise should have been bigger - I would make it again and again, but to 160+. The tight passive was tight passive in a way, that he wasn't iso raising worse players, just limped behind with hands like K10s in LP or A4s etc. But folded to aggression a lot and saw him actually 3bet JJ on Jx9s4s in pot where he was aggresor. So he had some aggression in him, that he would 3bet QQ+/AK, so there are only few hands he calls the raise and calls 3bet squeeze with. And the first bettor raised hands such as J10 or A5 before too, so he had really wide range there.
2/5 3bet pot, Kd7d (BB) on Q732rnbw. 2nd barrel or give up? Quote
05-04-2013 , 08:35 PM
If you are going to make that raise pf with K7 you need to barrel more than one street on such a dry board. I bet around half Poland hope to get V off a hand like 99 or TT
2/5 3bet pot, Kd7d (BB) on Q732rnbw. 2nd barrel or give up? Quote
05-04-2013 , 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by imvv11
ATsai: The thing is, I was surprised he called here pf. Not that he didn't call a 3bet before from BB or some other bad position when he didn't have much invested in the pot, but usually it was about 60 to 100. 130 as bad sizing it was, seemed a little too big from him to call with 5 invested.

My thoughts on the flop was, that he was the kind of player who could call with hands such as 45s to QJs, also with 22-99 (would raise 1010+ from UTG here I think). So I put him on all suited connectors from 45s till QJs and all pairs 22-99.

I must admit, that I was little lost and was probably betting somehow automatically, just "because that's what I would do with JJ+/AQ+". I was afraid to check and face too big bet. Also I thought I have some FE and there were cards I would like to see on the turn - A/K/7/diamond on which I could fire another barrel. But when turn is complete brick, I wasn't sure what to do. I didn't put him on something like AQ/KQ, because he doesn't limp it ever. Also he would raise with QQ/KK/AA pf with so many people behind able to call - he was bad but understood things like playing AA against 5 people isn't good.

So there are few suited queens like QJ/Q10, maybe Q9, then pairs like 22-99, other 7x hands probably something like 75/76/78/79 suited. I found stack sizes gross, because I didn't like 330 into 650, and then check/calling brick river in the hand, where I can imagine him having a 7 a lot of times. so I just wasn't sure what to do on the turn. And I'm not sure now.
Sounds like you screwed up the flop because you didn't have a good plan.

The important thing is that you admitted that "you were lost" in the hand and just fired a c-bet without thinking hard about your overall plan across future streets. Then, when the turn bricked, you froze up.

Next time, you should take a deep breath and slow down on the flop. Formulate a good multi-street plan first. Then make your flop decision.
2/5 3bet pot, Kd7d (BB) on Q732rnbw. 2nd barrel or give up? Quote

      
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