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Old 04-12-2018, 11:32 AM   #1
Joey913
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2/5: 3! light a slag/aggro and flop bottom pair OOP

Villain ($550): 30ish white woman. She claims to be a pro and is trying to impress the table by telling us all the big name poker players she has played with. SLAG/Aggro, raising ~60% of hands pre and I've noticed larger sizing means generally better hand. Has a fold button but it is small. Thin value bets a little too well and has been value-owned some. Down a few buyins (a couple preceded my joining table). She got it all in pre with TT against a pretty non-descript player who had JJ, so she seems to be aware of her image and that folks are playing back at her lighter and adjusts.

Hero ($525): 30ish WG, been at table for about 2 hours (V has been there the whole time) and have been playing pretty tight, not involved in many hands.

OTTH... Folds to V in CO and she raises to $15, BU folds, Hero raises to $50 w/ A5. BB folds, V calls.

Flop ($100): 58T Hero leads $70, V calls. Thoughts?

Turn ($240): 58T 6 Hero??

I've definitely not mastered the art of 3! light, but this seemed to be a decent situation to do so considering V's weak perceived range, my holding, and my image. Was this a good plan to begin with?
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Old 04-12-2018, 11:45 AM   #2
DormantShark
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Re: 2/5: 3! light a slag/aggro and flop bottom pair OOP

Usually I'd say this is a pretty awesome spot for a light 3! with an A blocker, wheel draw, and NFD, but if she's as sticky as you say, then I don't think this is the best opponent to try that against. Honestly, she seems like a great opponent to just practice patience and wait to get paid. So with the worst possible position, a marginal hand, and a sticky opponent, I just give up pre and wait for a better spot.

AP otf - Definitely gotta barrel, pair + BDFD is good enough to continue here. Obv we're hoping for a fold though and if she calls, we need to understand what cards we can barrel and which we can't. I think we can bet again on any 5, A, H, or K, maybe other overcards, but I tend to think those open up a bunch more pair + gutshots that won't go away with their increased equity. So that's 2 + 3 + 10 + 3 = 18 cards that let us barrel, which is ~40% of the time.

AP ott - you have no idea where you are, you have a very marginal hand, and you have few chances to improve. I check.

I think the mistake was taking an aggressive line against an opponent who doesn't seem like she can be easily pushed around.

PF: fold >>> 3! >>>>>>>call
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Old 04-12-2018, 11:48 AM   #3
shorn7
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Re: 2/5: 3! light a slag/aggro and flop bottom pair OOP

I don't like it from the SB, especially versus a player who has a "very small fold button". You want at least some PFFE before doing this and it doesn't seem like your descrip of her gives you that.

I think I check this flop and either CR or hope it checks thru and lead the turn. V has a massive range advantage versus you on this board so a normal c-bet is unlikely to get her to fold.

Frankly, given the flop call, I am not sure there is any way you can win this hand without risking your whole stack with bottom pair.
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Old 04-12-2018, 12:09 PM   #4
sierradave
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Re: 2/5: 3! light a slag/aggro and flop bottom pair OOP

I'd be more on board with a light 3! if you had position on her. You know she's rarely folding preflop, and you have to figure she's comfortable floating a ton of flops. So your three-bet here means you're setting up to play for stacks with a hand that rarely flops well, out of position against a tricky opponent.

In the hand itself, I think you either have to check-fold this turn or bet/fold large enough to make her think turning her one-pair hands into a semi-bluff has no fold equity ($175-$200). I would lean heavily towards the check-fold. You don't beat much, the overpairs you are repping don't like this turn card, and she has a ton of hands in her range that are already ahead of you and she can either call or semibluff with.

If you do bet the turn, I think $175 is a little better than $200+. That will leave you with $230 for a mandatory river shove, which is enough that she might talk herself into folding her 87o on the river against your obvious overpair, even thought she'd be getting 3-to-1. The larger your turn bet is, the more she'll feel obligated to call the river because of pot odds.
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Old 04-12-2018, 02:12 PM   #5
thin_slicing
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Re: 2/5: 3! light a slag/aggro and flop bottom pair OOP

How wide of a range are you giving her here?

The turn is a card that theoretically hits part of her range but it also doesn't help all of her Broadway type hands.

If she is a pro she is probably aware of your image. If this is the first time you have 3-bet I like it from the blinds. I would maybe go a little bigger since you are out of position ($60). Make her pay for the times you have AA-JJ, AK, AQ here.

I am giving her QQ-22, AK-A2s, all broadways (suited and unsuited). K9s, Q9s, J9-J8s, 109s, 98s, 87s, 86s, 76s, 56s.

I like barreling this turn if you want to continue your story. You will put her 1 pair hands in a lot of tough spots but some of her suited connectors are going to hit and you would have to fold to a raise.

I would bet $185 on this turn if you want to keep telling the story.

Also you could maybe take AKs, QQ, and JJ out of her range if you think its a 4-bet from her. I took AA and KK out too although I realize theoretically she could try to play it tricky in position.
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Old 04-12-2018, 10:53 PM   #6
samo
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Re: 2/5: 3! light a slag/aggro and flop bottom pair OOP

I think completing is more optimal than 3b with these stacks and being oop.

As played, smaller sizing on this flop texture (i.e. how much would u bet w/AA?). Have to C/F turn oop. Position is key.
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Old 04-13-2018, 12:01 AM   #7
johnnyBuz
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Re: 2/5: 3! light a slag/aggro and flop bottom pair OOP

I don’t think there’s any difference in FE between $40-70 flop sizing. You just have to give up on so many turns with your sizing.
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Old 04-13-2018, 07:12 AM   #8
TenFourOff
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Re: 2/5: 3! light a slag/aggro and flop bottom pair OOP

[QUOTE=DormantShark;53693517
PF: fold >>> 3! >>>>>>>call[/QUOTE]

PF, as described, it seems that you will still be heads up against a LAG villain if you just called instead of 3-bet. Why bloat the pot against a villain who barely folds pf?

If you just called the pf bet, you are almost guaranteed a villain c-bet on the flop, hence you have excellent relative position. You will also have a more favorable SPR for your hand. I just don't see what 3-betting a speculative hand pf gives you against a villain like you describe.

Call>fold>>>3-bet
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Old 04-13-2018, 07:39 AM   #9
Ranma4703
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Re: 2/5: 3! light a slag/aggro and flop bottom pair OOP

I like the 3bet pre if villain will open/fold hands like A8o, if she is going to open/call them then it gets much worse. But given how loose villain is described, 3betting pre is actually pushing an equity edge for us and should be fine.

On the flop you bet WAAAAAAY too big. I think 30 is plenty. You can also x/c this hand if you are not planning on cbetting all your hands here, but I think oop with a stronger range we want to be betting here pretty often, we just don't want to go too big. The turn card sucks, we now lose to 67/79 and we aren't getting any better pairs to fold, so just check
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Old 04-13-2018, 06:55 PM   #10
SwolyswoND
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Re: 2/5: 3! light a slag/aggro and flop bottom pair OOP

$60 pre at least.

Agreed with Johnny and Ranma that we sized too big on the flop.

AP, not exactly a good card to barrel. One draw completed, plus now a lot of combos are pair + draw. Probably gotta waive the flag here - if she's competent like she gives the impression of being, she knows this turn helps her range way more than your own, and she can jam over turn bets quite often here.
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Old 04-14-2018, 07:56 PM   #11
Joey913
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Re: 2/5: 3! light a slag/aggro and flop bottom pair OOP

Thanks for some great feedback on the hand. Since a lot of people suggested my flop bet was too big, had I bet 40 on the flop and villain called am I still check / folding the turn?
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Old 04-14-2018, 08:51 PM   #12
DeathCabForTootie
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Re: 2/5: 3! light a slag/aggro and flop bottom pair OOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey913 View Post
Thanks for some great feedback on the hand. Since a lot of people suggested my flop bet was too big, had I bet 40 on the flop and villain called am I still check / folding the turn?
yes. turn is a pretty bad barrel card for us, as many have already pointed out.

FWIW good thought process. you may want to consider flatting pre if the BB is weak.
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