800ish effective

Villain is a splashy loose passive whale. Limp call pre with 32o type. He's not a total drooler though, he's folding AQ on a567 to a raise. And he's done weird stuff like 3bet 88 to 5x raise then fold to 4bet shove.

Hero is young white guy with loose aggro image (villain prob doesn't care about image).

Hero is CO with KhKs.

Pre flop, a million Limper's including villain. Hero makes it 40, 4 callers including villain (villain is HJ).

Flop 220: 6s2h3h 3 checks, villain bets 115, hero makes it 250, folds, villain calls quickly.

Turn 720: 6h villain checks, hero? (515 left)

For those who check turn see below for hypothetical.

[Spoiler] if you check turn, river is Q's and villain shoves[/spoiler]

800ish effective

Villain is a splashy loose passive whale. Limp call pre with 32o type. He's not a total drooler though, he's folding AQ on a567 to a raise. And he's done weird stuff like 3bet 88 to 5x raise then fold to 4bet shove.

Flop 220: 6s2h3h 3 checks, villain bets 115, hero makes it 250, folds, villain calls quickly.



Pre-flop looks fine, but IF there were say 6 limpers, I would be making it 55-60~

Flop: I hate this flop for us, with 4 limpers, no bueno. Smash certain ranges. 1st thing of note, V is showing interest when he's not last aggressor, if that is in anyway uncommon for him and it seems like based on background information it is, that's red flag. Lots to say about your raise:

• It doesn't really help you that much figuring out where he's at. If you raise more, like 305+ if he continues it's easier to apply range, but with him calling this raise it leaves you open to so much possibilities. He should fold 77+ and 42, 34, 35, 52, and a lone 6. But now we just don't know.
  • Although you would level me a bit with such a raise, I'd think are you minning with Big Pair, or AK.
  • By raising the flop you 100% rep QQ+ and if he continues with you and shows aggression after that I don't know how you're not beat.
  • You wanna charge draws and get money in when you have the best, but when he donks does he not have you beat here, does he play draws aggressively, or is this a made hand/set? You would know, not me? You raise here if you put him on a draw, you call if you think he has 77+, a lone 6, or air. So much of it comes down how does he play a monster (that can be beaten by draw hitting) vs draw vs middling hand... You would know of all of us, any insight? something?

Continuing on Bold: On Flop: call, raise, raise/shove, raise/fold, comes down so freaking much to the bold.


Turn: I fold to almost all turn bets. We were the last aggressor on turn, we have initiation, if he donks on that turn I'm out.

As played, I'm checking it back ofc.

River: If he shoves I'm folding. If he bets 350 I'm folding. If he bets 100... I'm folding?



TLDR:

Pre-Flop: 55

Flop: (Villian History dependent) Fold or Raise 305~ If then shoved on, I painfully fold.

Turn: If he donks, I prob fold. If he checks, I check back.

River: I fold to damn near everything. Cept to like 100-200, I might call.

---He has it.

I check turn, if he shoves river on Qs I'm calling. expect him to shove on flop alot of his FD type hands after being raised. The fact that he calls makes me believe he has a PP, which he could be turning as a bluff on the river.

With "a million limpers" and a guy who limp-calls ATC already in, raising to 8bb is bad IMO. I mean I guess if he reads bet sizing and adjusts properly fine but otherwise I'm making it more.

I probably call flop instead of raising, if the turn is completely gross and this alleged non-drooler bombs it I can find a fold. So in this scenario if he bombs turn, his flop donk looks like he has a hand and 6x/FDs just made it, that would fold me out without extra reads.

AP I don't know. I think we're pretty committed by the turn, if so maybe take a check turn line, river GII / K; x/c or xb other rivers, consider folding to a jam on a non- 4 or 5? Seems like a spot that's extremely read dependant though, I mean if this guy is passive and would likely check with mid-pockets OTR instead of bluffing, fine, easy fold.

You say there is $220 going into the flop, so I assume you took away the blinds as the rake. That means that there were 6 limpers, making the pot $30 [excluding blinds] before you act.

So, I am going to assume this is a limp-fest game & due to you getting 4 callers, they are willing to pay a considerable more with their 86s etc.

Therefore, you definitely need to raise more pre. KK doesn't play well in a group.

AbqDave did a nice COTM titled "Price of Inelasticity of Demand." It revolves around finding the right price for the table dynamic you're playing in to achieve your objective.
Here you want 2 callers at the most.

So, even if the 1st limper was someone who limps with QQ to try & catch a flop where he has an overpair to the board before committing a lot chips, if he calls, those behind will have to think harder about calling with their 86s, etc.

You made it $35 on top, which obviously wasn't enough. Then again, maybe you could have made it $500 & the whale with his 66 still would have called. Who knows. In any event, you definitely don't want 4 callers.

Flop: What was your reasoning for raising? Did you believe it was possible that some of the other 3 players would call $115 & you wanted to narrow the field? If they are that loose, then you definitely needed to raise more pre. It's the only reason I can see for raising.

I like WereBeer's reasoning for turn & river play.

Disclaimer: I've logged 2036.6 hours since February 2015 & I am not crushing [$20+pr hr] the 1/2 NL game.

There was 4 limpers and a surrendered blind on the button. I could have made it bigger pre but I don't think it's that necessary tbh.

Raising the flop is for value vs the whale as there are many bad run outs where I think I don't stack 25, 65, 35, 44, 55, 77 type hands. Other villains in this hand weren't particularly good or bad, kind of average losing 2/5 players all with 400~ behind.

HU with the whale is what I want. I don't expect him to have a nutted hand here ever.

I'm more interested if people think turn is a jam for value or a check back.

You're saying on Turn he doesn't have Straight, Flush, Trips, Full House or Quads? or You're saying he doesn't have nuts on Flop?


Jamming turn is kinda thin? What is he calling with that you're beating? A high heart? 44+?


And not to smart, but you had 6+ limpers and posted blind, and you had 4 callers, 5 way to flop. It's not necessary but it's better, a lot better to bet higher PF; it thins the field, builds pot for value, and helps range, all of which makes it easier to play. Further, with a posted button blind and so much limpers there is meta that it looks like you're stealing = even more incentive to go for max value with success.

Becasue he bet-c flop, I much prefer ck turn - fold riv

as played, give up. everything got there.

flop, make it 355 or just shove.

we see these threads over and over and over. super wet board and hero does NOT protect his hand, and prices every draw in with small piddling raises.

Looking at it again, as played def checking turn back because while draws hit and what not by checking you pot control and get to see a fee card for your K-high flush draw. If I was in the game live, and I was on this spot on Turn I'd def check it back in the moment.