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Old 02-12-2018, 08:43 PM   #1
Ranma4703
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[2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot

Very nitty TAG limps UTG (he limp/reraises fairly often and also will limp like TT here) I overlimp on the button with Q9, sb, bb, and straddle all complete.

Main villain is in the straddle and is very loose and aggressive, more so when he is losing and he sat down recently. Will play any two in some spots, bets his draws and his made hands, pretty wild. We're $1000 effective

Flop: J94 ($50)
Villain leads out $40, I call $40, everyone else folds

Versus most people I just fold the flop, versus this villain with a BDFD and a chance he's betting a worse 9, I take one off

Turn: Q ($130)
He bets $120, I call

I considered raising but his larger sizing on the turn makes it less likely he is drawing and I vomit in my mouth if he 3bets the turn

River: 3 ($370)
He bets $100, I call

standard-ish?
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Old 02-12-2018, 08:51 PM   #2
Garick
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Re: [2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot

Why no raise river? Is better ever betting that small OTR?
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Old 02-12-2018, 09:07 PM   #3
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Re: [2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot

I raise turn. Can’t really see him 3! worse except exactly AT.

Calling river as played.
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Old 02-12-2018, 09:24 PM   #4
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Re: [2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot

The hand was played fine. At first I wanted to raise the turn but with you're read on his sizing meaning a made hand, there are a lot of hands that have us beat. QJ/44/KT/T8 have us drawing thin. The are definitely some made hands (J4/QT) that we are ahead of that will likely call us but the fact that villain is capable of 3! Semi-bluffing us makes me think flatting the turn is right.
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Old 02-12-2018, 09:27 PM   #5
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Re: [2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot

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Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
I raise turn. Can’t really see him 3! worse except exactly AT.
No QThh or JThh?
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Old 02-13-2018, 11:08 AM   #6
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Re: [2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot

Looks fine to me.

I guess I would say why raise the river? Is worse calling and do we really want to face a shove? Yes it may be a blocker from all his one pair hands (xJ mostly), but if so I don't think we are getting any more from him. Could just be a suck bet too with the nuts.
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Old 02-13-2018, 11:22 AM   #7
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Re: [2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot

Raise river? And get called by what
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Old 02-13-2018, 12:34 PM   #8
Joey913
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Re: [2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot

Yeah I'm not following the raise river logic either. Too thin for my liking.
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:40 PM   #9
Avaritia
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Re: [2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot

Like garick my immediate instinct went to raise bc that river sizing screams "i want showdown" and i like to punish those people.

That said, its going to be very hard to get called by worse unless you choose a small sizing, and then that might induce. Hand is a standard call down. I think if i was amped up on adderall playing my A++ game id click it back or do something silly like that anyways.

Most likely hands that take this line are JT/QT/KQ imo.

Flat turn is good.
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:49 PM   #10
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Re: [2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot

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Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Flat turn is good.
Are you MUBsing or is this strictly due to bet sizing?

I’m more inclined to believe villain was leading flop with a flush draw rather than a dirty 6-out OESD with T8 in a 5-way pot.

The only straight we fear is KT (and sick run good picking that up in straddle). Even if he has QJ he’s not going to 3! us on the turn for fear of us having the straight so we can get value from worse and generally fold if he comes back over the top.
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:54 PM   #11
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Re: [2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot

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Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
Are you MUBsing or is this strictly due to bet sizing?

I’m more inclined to believe villain was leading flop with a flush draw rather than a dirty 6-out OESD with T8 in a 5-way pot.

The only straight we fear is KT (and sick run good picking that up in straddle). Even if he has QJ he’s not going to 3! us on the turn for fear of us having the straight so we can get value from worse and generally fold if he comes back over the top.
Before you said only that the only worse hand that 3! us on the turn is exactly AT, but I'm still not sure why he can't 3! us on the turn with QT or JT
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Old 02-13-2018, 03:01 PM   #12
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Re: [2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot

He can. Those are reasonable combos - I just didn’t acknowledge your post. But 3! the turn after the OESD completes with nothing but a blocker seems sub-optimal.
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Old 02-14-2018, 11:11 AM   #13
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Re: [2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot

OTR, I'd click up to $225/fold. If he folds, fine. 44 would be nasty.
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Old 02-14-2018, 11:23 AM   #14
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Re: [2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranma4703 View Post
Very nitty TAG limps UTG (he limp/reraises fairly often and also will limp like TT here) I overlimp on the button with Q9, sb, bb, and straddle all complete.

Main villain is in the straddle and is very loose and aggressive, more so when he is losing and he sat down recently. Will play any two in some spots, bets his draws and his made hands, pretty wild. We're $1000 effective

Flop: J94 ($50)
Villain leads out $40, I call $40, everyone else folds

Versus most people I just fold the flop, versus this villain with a BDFD and a chance he's betting a worse 9, I take one off

Turn: Q ($130)
He bets $120, I call

I considered raising but his larger sizing on the turn makes it less likely he is drawing and I vomit in my mouth if he 3bets the turn

River: 3 ($370)
He bets $100, I call

standard-ish?
What does this mean? Where is he straddling from? And how does the straddler "complete" ?
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Old 02-14-2018, 11:26 AM   #15
johnnyBuz
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Re: [2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot

A player that likes to l/rr limped the straddle UTG which is likely why OP over limped the BTN. The main villain in this hand is the straddler, not UTG.
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:12 PM   #16
MikeStarr
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Re: [2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot

I guess you can straddle from anywhere then? Because UTG limped and Hero is the button. Still not sure how the straddler "completed". Did he check?
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:47 PM   #17
Ranma4703
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Re: [2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot

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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
I guess you can straddle from anywhere then? Because UTG limped and Hero is the button. Still not sure how the straddler "completed". Did he check?
Yes he checked, I just didn't write out sb and bb complete and straddler checks because it's twice as long. The straddler is UTG and is 10, that is why it is 2/5/10
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:11 PM   #18
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Re: [2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot

AP I’m calling river.

The majority of average/even decent aggressive players will have a riv sizing leak (downbet) for value against both all of your range that will call and the majority of your range that will raise (Q9cc i.e.).
The second is mostly straightforward handreading - tough to find a range for V that wants to block this riv after nearly potting turn (and flop).
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:10 PM   #19
MikeStarr
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Re: [2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranma4703 View Post
Yes he checked, I just didn't write out sb and bb complete and straddler checks because it's twice as long. The straddler is UTG and is 10, that is why it is 2/5/10
Then why do the first 5 words of the OP say "Very nitty TAG limps UTG"?

He didnt limp if he straddled. Im totally lost.
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:25 PM   #20
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Re: [2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
Then why do the first 5 words of the OP say "Very nitty TAG limps UTG"?

He didnt limp if he straddled. Im totally lost.
Common to refer to first to act as UTG in a 3 blind game.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:41 PM   #21
Ranma4703
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Re: [2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot

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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
Then why do the first 5 words of the OP say "Very nitty TAG limps UTG"?

He didnt limp if he straddled. Im totally lost.
I seriously just unblocked your posts and I'm remembering why I blocked them in the first place
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Old 02-14-2018, 11:49 PM   #22
MikeStarr
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Re: [2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot

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Originally Posted by Ranma4703 View Post
I seriously just unblocked your posts and I'm remembering why I blocked them in the first place
LOL. I wasted 20 minutes of my life that I can never get back reading one of the most confusing HHs ever. And Im the bad guy.
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Old 02-14-2018, 11:55 PM   #23
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Re: [2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot

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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
LOL. I wasted 20 minutes of my life that I can never get back reading one of the most confusing HHs ever. And Im the bad guy.
It was not confusing in the slightest. Very clearly indicates the preflop action and then tells you exactly who the villain is postflop:
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:54 AM   #24
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Re: [2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
It was not confusing in the slightest. Very clearly indicates the preflop action and then tells you exactly who the villain is postflop:
I guess Im a retard then but this sentence is not very clear

Very nitty TAG limps UTG (he limp/reraises fairly often and also will limp like TT here) I overlimp on the button with Q9, sb, bb, and straddle all complete.

It says UTG and button both limped so its not clear where the straddler is. You do know you can straddle from any position in some rooms right?

Then it says the straddler "completes". Thats certainly not very clear.

Then it says

Main villain is in the straddle and is very loose and aggressive, more so when he is losing and he sat down recently. Will play any two in some spots, bets his draws and his made hands, pretty wild. We're $1000 effective

I still wasnt clear if the Main villian is the same guy who likes to limp/reraise.

So NO, its not very clear at all, but whatever. I was just trying to clarify so I could help the guy out with any advice that might be helpful. My mistake.
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:53 AM   #25
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Re: [2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot

lol mike... it is extremely clear. the game is 2/5/T.

$2 blind = SB
$5 blind = BB
$10 blind = straddle
first to act pre = UTG

UTG limps, Hero limps button, sb completes, bb completes, straddle (villain) checks

cannot tell if you are trolling or dense sometimes but probably the latter lol.

@op; this hand is played fine. I think the turn is close and I'd definitely raise vs smaller sizings but just flatting when he pots seems good.
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