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[2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot [2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot

02-12-2018 , 08:43 PM
Very nitty TAG limps UTG (he limp/reraises fairly often and also will limp like TT here) I overlimp on the button with Q9, sb, bb, and straddle all complete.

Main villain is in the straddle and is very loose and aggressive, more so when he is losing and he sat down recently. Will play any two in some spots, bets his draws and his made hands, pretty wild. We're $1000 effective

Flop: J94 ($50)
Villain leads out $40, I call $40, everyone else folds

Versus most people I just fold the flop, versus this villain with a BDFD and a chance he's betting a worse 9, I take one off

Turn: Q ($130)
He bets $120, I call

I considered raising but his larger sizing on the turn makes it less likely he is drawing and I vomit in my mouth if he 3bets the turn

River: 3 ($370)
He bets $100, I call

standard-ish?
[2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot Quote
02-12-2018 , 08:51 PM
Why no raise river? Is better ever betting that small OTR?
[2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot Quote
02-12-2018 , 09:07 PM
I raise turn. Can’t really see him 3! worse except exactly AT.

Calling river as played.
[2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot Quote
02-12-2018 , 09:24 PM
The hand was played fine. At first I wanted to raise the turn but with you're read on his sizing meaning a made hand, there are a lot of hands that have us beat. QJ/44/KT/T8 have us drawing thin. The are definitely some made hands (J4/QT) that we are ahead of that will likely call us but the fact that villain is capable of 3! Semi-bluffing us makes me think flatting the turn is right.
[2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot Quote
02-12-2018 , 09:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
I raise turn. Can’t really see him 3! worse except exactly AT.
No QThh or JThh?
[2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot Quote
02-13-2018 , 11:08 AM
Looks fine to me.

I guess I would say why raise the river? Is worse calling and do we really want to face a shove? Yes it may be a blocker from all his one pair hands (xJ mostly), but if so I don't think we are getting any more from him. Could just be a suck bet too with the nuts.
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02-13-2018 , 11:22 AM
Raise river? And get called by what
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02-13-2018 , 12:34 PM
Yeah I'm not following the raise river logic either. Too thin for my liking.
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02-13-2018 , 02:40 PM
Like garick my immediate instinct went to raise bc that river sizing screams "i want showdown" and i like to punish those people.

That said, its going to be very hard to get called by worse unless you choose a small sizing, and then that might induce. Hand is a standard call down. I think if i was amped up on adderall playing my A++ game id click it back or do something silly like that anyways.

Most likely hands that take this line are JT/QT/KQ imo.

Flat turn is good.
[2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot Quote
02-13-2018 , 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia
Flat turn is good.
Are you MUBsing or is this strictly due to bet sizing?

I’m more inclined to believe villain was leading flop with a flush draw rather than a dirty 6-out OESD with T8 in a 5-way pot.

The only straight we fear is KT (and sick run good picking that up in straddle). Even if he has QJ he’s not going to 3! us on the turn for fear of us having the straight so we can get value from worse and generally fold if he comes back over the top.
[2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot Quote
02-13-2018 , 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
Are you MUBsing or is this strictly due to bet sizing?

I’m more inclined to believe villain was leading flop with a flush draw rather than a dirty 6-out OESD with T8 in a 5-way pot.

The only straight we fear is KT (and sick run good picking that up in straddle). Even if he has QJ he’s not going to 3! us on the turn for fear of us having the straight so we can get value from worse and generally fold if he comes back over the top.
Before you said only that the only worse hand that 3! us on the turn is exactly AT, but I'm still not sure why he can't 3! us on the turn with QT or JT
[2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot Quote
02-13-2018 , 03:01 PM
He can. Those are reasonable combos - I just didn’t acknowledge your post. But 3! the turn after the OESD completes with nothing but a blocker seems sub-optimal.
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02-14-2018 , 11:11 AM
OTR, I'd click up to $225/fold. If he folds, fine. 44 would be nasty.
[2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot Quote
02-14-2018 , 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranma4703
Very nitty TAG limps UTG (he limp/reraises fairly often and also will limp like TT here) I overlimp on the button with Q9, sb, bb, and straddle all complete.

Main villain is in the straddle and is very loose and aggressive, more so when he is losing and he sat down recently. Will play any two in some spots, bets his draws and his made hands, pretty wild. We're $1000 effective

Flop: J94 ($50)
Villain leads out $40, I call $40, everyone else folds

Versus most people I just fold the flop, versus this villain with a BDFD and a chance he's betting a worse 9, I take one off

Turn: Q ($130)
He bets $120, I call

I considered raising but his larger sizing on the turn makes it less likely he is drawing and I vomit in my mouth if he 3bets the turn

River: 3 ($370)
He bets $100, I call

standard-ish?
What does this mean? Where is he straddling from? And how does the straddler "complete" ?
[2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot Quote
02-14-2018 , 11:26 AM
A player that likes to l/rr limped the straddle UTG which is likely why OP over limped the BTN. The main villain in this hand is the straddler, not UTG.
[2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot Quote
02-14-2018 , 12:12 PM
I guess you can straddle from anywhere then? Because UTG limped and Hero is the button. Still not sure how the straddler "completed". Did he check?
[2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot Quote
02-14-2018 , 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
I guess you can straddle from anywhere then? Because UTG limped and Hero is the button. Still not sure how the straddler "completed". Did he check?
Yes he checked, I just didn't write out sb and bb complete and straddler checks because it's twice as long. The straddler is UTG and is 10, that is why it is 2/5/10
[2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot Quote
02-14-2018 , 06:11 PM
AP I’m calling river.

The majority of average/even decent aggressive players will have a riv sizing leak (downbet) for value against both all of your range that will call and the majority of your range that will raise (Q9cc i.e.).
The second is mostly straightforward handreading - tough to find a range for V that wants to block this riv after nearly potting turn (and flop).
[2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot Quote
02-14-2018 , 08:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranma4703
Yes he checked, I just didn't write out sb and bb complete and straddler checks because it's twice as long. The straddler is UTG and is 10, that is why it is 2/5/10
Then why do the first 5 words of the OP say "Very nitty TAG limps UTG"?

He didnt limp if he straddled. Im totally lost.
[2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot Quote
02-14-2018 , 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
Then why do the first 5 words of the OP say "Very nitty TAG limps UTG"?

He didnt limp if he straddled. Im totally lost.
Common to refer to first to act as UTG in a 3 blind game.
[2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot Quote
02-14-2018 , 10:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
Then why do the first 5 words of the OP say "Very nitty TAG limps UTG"?

He didnt limp if he straddled. Im totally lost.
I seriously just unblocked your posts and I'm remembering why I blocked them in the first place
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02-14-2018 , 11:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranma4703
I seriously just unblocked your posts and I'm remembering why I blocked them in the first place
LOL. I wasted 20 minutes of my life that I can never get back reading one of the most confusing HHs ever. And Im the bad guy.
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02-14-2018 , 11:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
LOL. I wasted 20 minutes of my life that I can never get back reading one of the most confusing HHs ever. And Im the bad guy.
It was not confusing in the slightest. Very clearly indicates the preflop action and then tells you exactly who the villain is postflop:
[2/5/10] Q9s turns two pair, unraised pot Quote
02-15-2018 , 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
It was not confusing in the slightest. Very clearly indicates the preflop action and then tells you exactly who the villain is postflop:
I guess Im a ****** then but this sentence is not very clear

Very nitty TAG limps UTG (he limp/reraises fairly often and also will limp like TT here) I overlimp on the button with Q9, sb, bb, and straddle all complete.

It says UTG and button both limped so its not clear where the straddler is. You do know you can straddle from any position in some rooms right?

Then it says the straddler "completes". Thats certainly not very clear.

Then it says

Main villain is in the straddle and is very loose and aggressive, more so when he is losing and he sat down recently. Will play any two in some spots, bets his draws and his made hands, pretty wild. We're $1000 effective

I still wasnt clear if the Main villian is the same guy who likes to limp/reraise.

So NO, its not very clear at all, but whatever. I was just trying to clarify so I could help the guy out with any advice that might be helpful. My mistake.
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02-15-2018 , 10:53 AM
lol mike... it is extremely clear. the game is 2/5/T.

$2 blind = SB
$5 blind = BB
$10 blind = straddle
first to act pre = UTG

UTG limps, Hero limps button, sb completes, bb completes, straddle (villain) checks

cannot tell if you are trolling or dense sometimes but probably the latter lol.

@op; this hand is played fine. I think the turn is close and I'd definitely raise vs smaller sizings but just flatting when he pots seems good.
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