Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-19-2017, 04:35 PM   #1
jc315
adept
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 765
$2/5/10 AK spot

Hero (~$1.2k) - BB - should have a TAG image. I have played vs V1 in a diff casino but not sure if he remembers me. I've been a bit active this session, just picking up hands. V1 seems to be relatively attentive from what I can tell, so my best guess is that he views me as competent as I've been only showing winners.

V1 (~$2.5k) - MP - mostly playing solid TAG

V2 (~$2.5k) - SB - pretty bad loose rec player. young, so I assume he's just really not rolled for the game but out here trying to bink. the type who won't really fold suited connecting cards like ever.

V1 opens to $35
V2 calls
Hero 3! AsKd $175
V1 thinks for a bit and calls
V2 calls

Flop (~$525) QcJd5s
V2 check

Should I be c-betting this flop 3-way? While i have a gutshot to the nuts, and I would certainly 3b QQ/JJ here, I think V1 has a lot of QQ/JJ/KQs/AQs type hands.

Should I just bet/fold 1/3pot? Or is it fine to given up?
jc315 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 04:56 PM   #2
Jarretman
veteran
 
Jarretman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Canadaland
Posts: 2,173
Re: $2/5/10 AK spot

Yeah it's kinda close. I like b/f 150-180.
Jarretman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 05:13 PM   #3
cicakman
banned
 
cicakman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9,232
Re: $2/5/10 AK spot

Just overcall pre if you don't know what to do post when you don't flop top top.
cicakman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 05:56 PM   #4
Viral25
old hand
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Random opinion generator
Posts: 1,321
Re: $2/5/10 AK spot

^So you want to give up FE, initiative and massive amounts of value(both pre and otf when we do hit) just because some flops are going to be awkward? Needless to say i dont agree.

I think i mostly just cbet ~200 this flop, we block KQ and AQ and both villains can easily have underpairs or even undercards that have some equity. C/f isn't terrible tho.
Viral25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 06:35 PM   #5
feel wrath
self-banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: lost on the turn
Posts: 15,372
Re: $2/5/10 AK spot

I sometimes flat there pre and sometimes raise. Raise size pre is fine.

While we've missed in this instance, that board actually smacks our 3b range pretty hard - what are you...JJ +, AK/AQs?

I would also believe that V1's calling range will have a load more pocket pairs and probably suited Aces than you've listed - given your 3 likely 3 bet range. He's got position on you and also on V2
V2's range is interesting and again, I think he's set mining a bunch here.

I'm almost certainly double barrelling here, because even AQ isn't gonna feel that great in V1's hand to a second barrell on the turn. Bet $220 on flop and am probably going big on turn
feel wrath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 07:56 PM   #6
QuadJ
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,921
Re: $2/5/10 AK spot

This flop hits your 3 betting range but it also hit's villains calling range. Every option here is OK and you should mix between them. You whiffed entirely and have 2 opponents so just check/folding a fair portion of the time is necessary to avoid being too aggressive. C-betting flop and giving up if called is fine, particularly on bad turn cards. C-bet flop/barrel turn is good also if you get one call on the flop.
QuadJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2017, 12:49 AM   #7
jc315
adept
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 765
Re: $2/5/10 AK spot

Ok thanks all. I think I may have missed a c-bet here... but i also didnt think x/f was too awful.

I also think that if I c-bet like 1/3 PSB and get called in 1 spot, I think jamming brick turns is prob good? It puts a ton of pressure on even AQ like an above poster mentioned
jc315 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2017, 03:26 AM   #8
onedollars
grinder
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 431
Re: $2/5/10 AK spot

IME people are pretty sticky when you bet tiny in 3b/4b pots. I would give up without more info on your previous hands
onedollars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2017, 06:16 AM   #9
Tomark
veteran
 
Tomark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,182
Re: $2/5/10 AK spot

Yeah i think betting 25% of pot is a good flop bet with QQ/JJ/AK. Id bet $125, and fold to a raise. If he calls, id bet small again on any non T turn, like $175. If he calls turn, id say he is weak, an you can do a small river value bet like $225 with top pair or straight, and bluff ship river with non A/K/T.
Tomark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2017, 07:22 AM   #10
GenghisKhan
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 122
Re: $2/5/10 AK spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by jc315 View Post
V1 opens to $35
V2 calls
Hero 3! AsKd $175
V1 thinks for a bit and calls
V2 calls
Flop (~$525) QcJd5s
V2 check

Should I be c-betting this flop 3-way? While i have a gutshot to the nuts, and I would certainly 3b QQ/JJ here, I think V1 has a lot of QQ/JJ/KQs/AQs type hands. Should I just bet/fold 1/3pot? Or is it fine to given up?
Preflop it's perfect.
On the flop you bet and keep betting until villain let you know he's got a big hand. He could have many other hands you beat not just the nuts. You on the other hand have 6 outs as overs plus the 4 outs for gutshot. That's 10 legitimate outs. Why check? - When you 3! preflop what range you think villain put you on? - He's afraid too you may have AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AK, AQs, AJs, ATs, KQs, KJs, KTs, QJs, T9s or even 55 as a lite 3! ..ha ha ha

Yes, I understand what you may be thinking: "Oh, but he could have the same hands too" The thing to always remember is that he will let you know on the turn if he's got a big hand. Either by leading big into you trying to take the leader away from you or he will check-raise so you know when NOT to "pay people off"

Never underestimate yourself and overestimate villain. Always remember that.

Last edited by GenghisKhan; 10-20-2017 at 07:31 AM.
GenghisKhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2017, 09:48 AM   #11
Playbig2000
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Playbig2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Suffern, NY
Posts: 6,468
Re: $2/5/10 AK spot

I look at it this way. If your not comfortable cbetting with two over cards otf then it's better to flat pre since we can't expect we're always gonna flop an ace or king. People flat a lot to 3bets pre since most player's tendencies are they call too much.

I would have cbet prob to 155 (I know your formula is correct, but when they start to open 7x and get a caller, I think it's ok to take a step back a little bit to keep the pot size under control).

On this flop I would think one person is gonna call so I would already know in advance one cbet isn't gonna take it down but it's not going to stop me from continuing to bet and represent the hand I 3bet pre with out of the big blind (Big premium PP). So I would bet 225 into what would have been 465 then if I pick up more equity I can decide what my next bet size is going to be depending on the turn card.
Playbig2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2017, 10:57 AM   #12
Playbig2000
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Playbig2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Suffern, NY
Posts: 6,468
Re: $2/5/10 AK spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000 View Post
I would have cbet prob to 155
*it's too late to change it but I meant I would 3bet to 155
Playbig2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2017, 11:10 AM   #13
momo_uk
old hand
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,271
Re: $2/5/10 AK spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by cicakman View Post
Just overcall pre if you don't know what to do post when you don't flop top top.

2017 definition of “results-oriented”.
momo_uk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2017, 02:19 PM   #14
jc315
adept
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 765
Re: $2/5/10 AK spot

@Playbig2000 - im just not sure I agree. I think I have significant fold equity preflop as well. And every board texture is different. I think boards like QJx, QT9, are tough boards to c-bet because while I have some strong hands in my range, I think those boards generally hit my villains ranges better which makes me unsure if I should be c-betting them without solvers/etc. I have no problem c-betting/double barreling various different boards.

I just think it's unfair to be like "you obv dont know what to do without flop TPTK so just flat."

also, GhengisKhan is outdonked right?
jc315 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2017, 03:00 PM   #15
Javanewt
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: a farm in the country
Posts: 6,582
Re: $2/5/10 AK spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by cicakman View Post
Just overcall pre if you don't know what to do post when you don't flop top top.
So incredibly unhelpful. Maybe OP knew exactly what to do but thought it was an interesting spot and wanted to see if others played differently. It's an interesting spot and can help other players when they are in this spot. If every poster knew what to do in every situation, we wouldn't need this forum (and poker would suck).

OP, pre is good. I like a smallish bet/fold on this flop -- less than half but not too small to look weak.
Javanewt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2017, 03:18 PM   #16
cicakman
banned
 
cicakman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9,232
Re: $2/5/10 AK spot

It's not an interesting spot. It's a cbet or not spot 1 buy-in deep on rainbow flop. My point was a semi joke to point out that you should have a semblance of a plan when you do stuff previous streets.
cicakman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2017, 03:23 PM   #17
Javanewt
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: a farm in the country
Posts: 6,582
Re: $2/5/10 AK spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by cicakman View Post
It's not an interesting spot. It's a cbet or not spot 1 buy-in deep on rainbow flop. My point was a semi joke to point out that you should have a semblance of a plan when you do stuff previous streets.
Yes, and maybe OP had a plan and followed through exactly as planned. Doesn't mean he can't post here to see what others would do. That's the point. Not much fun to post a HH, say exactly what you did and what happened, and then ask what others would do. Doesn't work that way. Just try to be helpful/polite instead of sarcastic.
Javanewt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2017, 03:26 PM   #18
cicakman
banned
 
cicakman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9,232
Re: $2/5/10 AK spot

Ok well my advice is don't play 2/5/10 if there's uncertainty in this spot.
cicakman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2017, 03:48 PM   #19
Playbig2000
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Playbig2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Suffern, NY
Posts: 6,468
Re: $2/5/10 AK spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by jc315 View Post
I just think it's unfair to be like "you obv dont know what to do without flop TPTK so just flat."
It wasn't said to criticize you. What you have to assume and expect is when you 3bet AK and someone calls you, you're gonna find yourself otf with two over cards a lot of the time (and OOP). So my point was if you're not comfortable double barreling with air (and this flop is going to take about two bullets) than take the lower variance option and call pre.

I don't really see a reason we have to give this up but with the two connecting cards that hits part of their range, it's probably gonna take a couple bullets (of course it depends on stacks, opponents and their range) if you decide to continue.

Last edited by Playbig2000; 10-20-2017 at 03:55 PM.
Playbig2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2017, 03:48 PM   #20
Dizzyqtp
adept
 
Dizzyqtp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 954
Re: $2/5/10 AK spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by cicakman View Post
Ok well my advice is don't play 2/5/10 if there's uncertainty in this spot.
you seem like a cool guy.

tbf I think this is one of the harder flops to navigate with AKo oop 3 ways in a 3b pot
Dizzyqtp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2017, 04:42 PM   #21
ZockenRobot
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 90
Re: $2/5/10 AK spot

I would bet it small and hope they whiffed. I assume we have 7 outs when called. One of our pair cards probably gives them 2 pair.
ZockenRobot is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online