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Old 06-13-2021, 06:34 PM   #1
Ranma4703
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[2/5/10] 56s from the SB 5 ways to the flop, you probably hate my play

8 handed, straddle is on the button, I'm in the SB with 56 and make it $55, 4 players call including villain in the straddle.

Villain joined the table recently, early 30s white guy with baseball hat, has played kinda tight over the small sample. Sat down with $1000 but only bought in for $700, has the extra black in his pocket for a rebuy.

Flop: 589 ($275)
I check (range check here), checks to villain quickly, he bets $125, I call, everyone else folds.

Could probably fold here with so many people behind, but everyone's check seemed pretty legitimately weak here, I have a GS+BDFD+very unexpected pair, and decent odds. I believe my x/c looks very strong as well.

Turn: K ($525)
check, he considers betting and then checks
I considered leading here, he has about $600 back so betting $200 puts him in a gross spot, but I didn't
River: A ($525)
I bet $275,,,,

Very unlikely MHIG, villains love to put us on AK, but also I'm worried my hand looks like TT-AA once I x/c the flop, so what story are we really telling on the river? And if that is the story we're telling, should we just be jamming river?
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Old 06-13-2021, 06:50 PM   #2
Petrucci
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Re: [2/5/10] 56s from the SB 5 ways to the flop, you probably hate my play

I am tempted to go with the old and boring this flop/hand/multiway with 6 high is a good example of why we dont raise this pre from the worst position at the table. Its not that this is anything you didnt know before, as i know you are an experienced player. But its still a good reminder of why discipline and basic stuff is very important.

Flop call is also scetchy to say the least with people left to act behind you. This is a fold for me everyday of the week, and i cant imagine we are making much money making this flopcall from the SB. That being said, leading on the K turn is not a bad plan- as well as i like a lead on any heart when we pick up the flushdraw.

I dont mind the riverbluff either as played. If were gonna raise these kind of speculative hands from the blinds we need to make some moves postflop too in an attempt to gain EV, and bluffing on this runout seems decent enough. Dont think it matters too much if our story makes sense or not unless we are up against a strong thinking player- this bet will still get alot of folds. But yeah, i would prefer us not getting to the river this way at all as mentioned.
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Old 06-13-2021, 06:58 PM   #3
fatmanonguitar
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Re: [2/5/10] 56s from the SB 5 ways to the flop, you probably hate my play

Pre - fold. This is not a hand you want to open with from SB with a button straddle. Should be a very tight opening range.

Flop - agree with a check on this board texture. Call is OK if passive game. Not great. None of your outs are clean.

Turn - fine

River - he caps his range with his turn check IP. So I heavily discount straight, sets and flopped 2 pair. He likely has 9x and worst case backed into two pair. We could possibly play AA/KK this way but I agree our story isn’t great. We don’t call flop with AK and TT-QQ should not really value bet river much. Tough spot. Despite a shaky story, most people are still unlikely to bluff catch with 9x on this runout against a PF raiser so I think a bluff works a lot. I think your sizing is decent bc I wouldn’t bet much more for value with AA/KK and you lose less when he has A9.
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Old 06-13-2021, 07:09 PM   #4
BHDonkey
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Re: [2/5/10] 56s from the SB 5 ways to the flop, you probably hate my play

Your line is so confusing that you'll get looked up a lot because it really makes no sense...and many poker players are curious sorts.

I, for one, would be baffled at the pre-flop raise into 7 players followed by a C/C on a fairly dry flop.
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Old 06-13-2021, 07:23 PM   #5
Ranma4703
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Re: [2/5/10] 56s from the SB 5 ways to the flop, you probably hate my play

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Originally Posted by BHDonkey View Post
Your line is so confusing that you'll get looked up a lot because it really makes no sense...and many poker players are curious sorts.

I, for one, would be baffled at the pre-flop raise into 7 players followed by a C/C on a fairly dry flop.
Hmm can you say more? I don't think I have much of a betting range on this flop five ways after raising pre, it is awful for our SB range (I'm opening hands like 56s, 67s probably 25% of the time here, so we're fairly capped at top set, don't have many 88 or 55 in our range, nor many 89s

I know most people follow like, well I raised pre and I have an overpair, gotta bet the flop, but I think it would be a HUGE mistake to bet out on this flop with most of our range, so defaulting to checking 100%
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Old 06-13-2021, 07:37 PM   #6
fatmanonguitar
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Re: [2/5/10] 56s from the SB 5 ways to the flop, you probably hate my play

I agree with OP that this flop is not fairly dry, more likely hits our opponent’s range than our SB raising range and nothing wrong with checking it.

Raising Pre was the biggest and most costly mistake.
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Old 06-13-2021, 08:39 PM   #7
Ranma4703
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Re: [2/5/10] 56s from the SB 5 ways to the flop, you probably hate my play

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Originally Posted by fatmanonguitar View Post
I agree with OP that this flop is not fairly dry, more likely hits our opponent’s range than our SB raising range and nothing wrong with checking it.

Raising Pre was the biggest and most costly mistake.
My opening range pre is 11% here, basically AA,KK,QQ,JJ,TT,99,88:0.5,77:0.25,66:0.25,55:0.25,4 4:0.25,33:0.25,22:0.25,AK,AQ,AJs,ATs,A9s:0.25,A8s: 0.25,A7s:0.25,A6s:0.25,A5s,A4s,A3s,A2s,KQs,KJs:0.5 ,KTs:0.5,QJs,QTs:0.5,JTs,J9s:0.5,T9s:0.25,98s:0.25 ,87s:0.25,76s:0.25,65s:0.25,54s:0.25

it's probably too wide, but I like having some low board coverage, and people always assume if they see you open a hand from a position, you always open it, which makes them play worse vs me, plus people don't 3bet enough at 2/5 so I get to over realize
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Old 06-13-2021, 11:11 PM   #8
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Re: [2/5/10] 56s from the SB 5 ways to the flop, you probably hate my play

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Originally Posted by Petrucci View Post
I am tempted to go with the old and boring this flop/hand/multiway with 6 high is a good example of why we dont raise this pre from the worst position at the table. Its not that this is anything you didnt know before, as i know you are an experienced player. But its still a good reminder of why discipline and basic stuff is very important.
+1

There are so many better spots we can widen our opening range from than the sb in a button straddle pot. I'm all for mixing it up but this just is not the time for it in my playbook.
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Old 06-14-2021, 05:26 PM   #9
BHDonkey
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Re: [2/5/10] 56s from the SB 5 ways to the flop, you probably hate my play

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Originally Posted by Ranma4703 View Post
Hmm can you say more? I don't think I have much of a betting range on this flop five ways after raising pre, it is awful for our SB range (I'm opening hands like 56s, 67s probably 25% of the time here, so we're fairly capped at top set, don't have many 88 or 55 in our range, nor many 89s

I know most people follow like, well I raised pre and I have an overpair, gotta bet the flop, but I think it would be a HUGE mistake to bet out on this flop with most of our range, so defaulting to checking 100%

You just opened from the SB with 56, so as far as I'm know you are completely uncapped since your range is so wide...if you're opening 25% of the time with 56s, 67s...then why don't you have medium pairs or 89s?

I'm just not sure what your plan was raising this type of hand from the SB into 7 players?

The river bet will go through sometimes...but it's really player dependent.

You want to play high wire poker, it seems. In my experience, leave that stuff to high stakes...at low stakes, too many people just don't care enough about the money.
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Old 06-14-2021, 06:58 PM   #10
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Re: [2/5/10] 56s from the SB 5 ways to the flop, you probably hate my play

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Originally Posted by BHDonkey View Post
You want to play high wire poker, it seems. In my experience, leave that stuff to high stakes...at low stakes, too many people just don't care enough about the money.
Yup. Also known as FPS.
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:14 PM   #11
monikrazy
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Re: [2/5/10] 56s from the SB 5 ways to the flop, you probably hate my play

Betting river with a hand at the bottom of our-range is fine. But flop call is spew, not closing the action.
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Old 06-14-2021, 10:14 PM   #12
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Re: [2/5/10] 56s from the SB 5 ways to the flop, you probably hate my play

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Originally Posted by Ranma4703 View Post
Hmm can you say more? I don't think I have much of a betting range on this flop five ways after raising pre, it is awful for our SB range (I'm opening hands like 56s, 67s probably 25% of the time here, so we're fairly capped at top set, don't have many 88 or 55 in our range, nor many 89s

I know most people follow like, well I raised pre and I have an overpair, gotta bet the flop, but I think it would be a HUGE mistake to bet out on this flop with most of our range, so defaulting to checking 100%
Checking this flop 100% of the time vs live low stakes mouth breathers has got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Please say it ain't so. If you're going to default to checking entire range even when you flop monsters then don't bother raising pre.
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Old 06-14-2021, 11:20 PM   #13
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Re: [2/5/10] 56s from the SB 5 ways to the flop, you probably hate my play

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Originally Posted by monikrazy View Post
Betting river with a hand at the bottom of our-range is fine. But flop call is spew, not closing the action.
yeah this. you glaze over the other 3 players in both your preflop and flop actions, but this is a 5-way bloater with low SPR, which means all stacks are extremely relevant in terms of repping a credible value hand. repping AK a tough sell if you are perceived as competent, as is 88, 99. cbet or c/r seem so much more likely than c/c with sets and I think it's a huge stretch (and a blind spot in your analysis) that an unknown V would assume or know you range check here. 1010-AA certainly gain credibility the deeper effective stacks are.

don't hate pre if you really are playing only 1/2 or 1/4 of the weaker hand combos (but I sort of doubt you are).

fold flop with 3 players behind.

turn lead seems quite button clicky

on the river you don't rep a ton of value hands, but there's not a lot of bluffs either, so seems alright even though it's suspect how you got to the river.

Curious how much you have in front of you and if you've won any pots while V has been at table since I think your image matters a lot here.

In terms of reads, 3 extra blacks are for probably adding on, not re-buying. that and the fact that V straddled makes me think V has some heart so in a vacuum I don't love bluffing this guy.
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Old 06-15-2021, 04:35 AM   #14
OvertlySexual
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Re: [2/5/10] 56s from the SB 5 ways to the flop, you probably hate my play

Calling flop is a clear mistake. I agree with 100% flop check.

Raising pre I thought a mistake, but I can accept it if it's done for board coverage 25% of the time, though has to be said 54s is still very low. You can do it with 65s+.

River bluff is mandatory, because you block nuts, the river hit your range and opponent capped his range on turn. You can represent all Ak, AA, KK.

It's probably an overbet spot too, definitely not 50% pot. 75%+
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Old 06-15-2021, 04:41 AM   #15
OmahaDonk
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Re: [2/5/10] 56s from the SB 5 ways to the flop, you probably hate my play

Agree we can rep KK and AA but we never call flop with AK
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Old 06-15-2021, 06:36 AM   #16
Petrucci
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Re: [2/5/10] 56s from the SB 5 ways to the flop, you probably hate my play

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Originally Posted by OmahaDonk View Post
Agree we can rep KK and AA but we never call flop with AK
That is certainly true, but it doesent mean that live donks cant believe we call flop with AK.

Everyone on 2+2 knows we dont check-call this flop multiway with AK, but livefish can still believe we do or level themself into thinking we do.
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Old 06-15-2021, 09:06 AM   #17
OvertlySexual
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Re: [2/5/10] 56s from the SB 5 ways to the flop, you probably hate my play

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Originally Posted by OmahaDonk View Post
Agree we can rep KK and AA but we never call flop with AK
You re right. I was going to say that maybe we called AKs with backdoor flushes, but there's only one combo left out of those.
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