Mid Thursday PM field of what appear to be rec passive and some semi-reg players who are more creative (SB and BB) but not relevant to this hand.

Hero new to table (400) limp TT utg1
UTG2 (300) raise to 15
MP, CO, BTN, SB and BB all call.
Hero calls. No reads on any player, looks like a gravy train table, taking the low variance route.

Flop (90) KsQhTs
Checked to late 20s early 30s Asian player CO (600), raise to 60
Tidy looking mid-late 30s BTN (700) raises to 200
Both players look strong, BTN raised without fear or hesitation to 200, CO doesn't look finished with it.

So many different spots I could raise in this hand - UTG open, NY backraise pre as played, lead flop as played, c/jam as played. But, I check folded the set. Even with specific reads that one or both of these players had flopped a straight, is this just too nitty in a live cash?

Oh shoot
Sry wrong forum
Modz pls move to llsnl

Why did you limp initially?

Never folding this. Im all in.

Raise pre.

As played, stuff it in.

You claim it's a passive table, that makes this even more of a must raise PF.

We play passive to the flop, then check again? Lead out here.

I think you've fallen into the trap of being passive, like the room you describe.

Given the way you played you can fold. But you should be going broke here.


I don't fear insanity, I enjoy every moment of it

You shouldn't be that worried about straights particularly with a potential 3-way allin, as you have outs against them. I would be worried about higher sets. However, neither player 3-bet preflop, which makes QQ/KK less likely, although passive players might just call a 4xBB raise with those. So you probably do need to stack off.

Not sure why you would open limp. At this stakes there could be a lot of limped pots, and you obviously don't want that. OK to limp/call 22-88 at a table like this though.

Grunch.

CO bets 60 into 90 and BTN adds 140 to a 210 pot. I'm shipping it.

Yes, you're crushed by KK and QQ (that failed to 3b pre). You're getting pretty close to the right odds against AJ and are way ahead of everything else.

I think folding here is a mistake.

I think TT UTG would generally play better with a raise. As played, there's no reason to RR here so limp/call seems right to me.

I was asian player in this hand in the cut off OR ITS A GIGANTIC COINCIDENCE

i have BTN on a straight
I have CO on J9, AJ, KQ-KT
If CO has KQ I'm in really bad shape and that was a big part in my decision to fold.

As for raising pre, there's a couple of points id like an opinion on:
A tendency for players at all stakes locally to limp 100% of opening range pre when UTG (or UTG1 on full 9 handed) then back raise the top of that range to iso. EP raisers routinely find several callers and make for hell post, so limp raise has become standard.
Whether TT is strong enough to limp-raise to say 90 or whether we're lighting $$ on fire taking this line.

Haha. Yep that's the hand. Delete spoiler tho!!
Would be interested to hear your opinion on the hand, table dynamic and player reads. You'd been there much longer.

deleted the spoiler, remove from your quote plz

I didn't think that the Btn was that strong, the PFR had checked and the cut off bet, he could be doing it with TPGK type hands no? Even JsXs, pretty much lots of hands imo? Open enders with pair type hands? JT, JQ, KJ? It was a good read to have put the c/o on a super strong hand tho....

When the button raised, I thought his range was 2P+ and big draws, he was pretty fishy imo.
You missed out on some wild stuff from him like 3betting with TT in the bb, after the utg+1 from this hand opened, and check/shipping flop of J77r for like 2.5 psr.

That table was pretty new tho, you came not long after it started.

ps: live poker must be really ageing my looks

btw, c/o had about $380 to start the hand, and Btn had like $450

Ah ok, so stacks were even. Must say I just glanced and saw no shorties and you both effectively covered me.

I didn't see the earlier hand and would prob rip it in if I could add some multi draws to BTN range. My read was that he had AJ or J9. It prob makes more sense to analyse the hand using that anchor point. Like I said he had no fear raising to 200 (and he had AJ).

CO range is more crucial imo. obv wider than him.

I think your hand ranges are too specific and mubsy.

BTN might have you crushed with a strangely played QQ+ or have you behind a straight. He might well also have 2P, combo flush or OESD draws, or even TP + draw.

CO might have you crushed or behind, but might also have many of the same hands mentioned for BTN.

Against their ranges, you're in good shape. The sets are unlikely given the preflop action and you have outs against everything else.

Yes, sometimes you'll have a perfect storm and one will have you beat while the other has your outs. But sometimes, they'll both have TP + draw hands and you're an even bigger favorite.

Picking the nutworst combo out against you and folding because you fear it's there is not a good way to make decisions. This will make your play weak/tight and you'll get blown out of pots you should win by aggressive V's.

You're way ahead of their ranges. That's all you need. It doesn't matter whether this particular time it's a perfect storm against you or you're lucky and they're colliding only with each other. Let's herd those chips towards the center of the table.

Wtf is going on in this thread?

I'm ok with preflop. I probably raise but I'm also ok with limping and not having to deal with my raise getting called in 6 places.

Flop: you're almost certainly not oversetted. You're getting basically even odds of someone flopped the nuts and miles ahead of everything else. Gotta get it in. I would probably lead myself on such a draw happy board.

I'm happy to raise this pre and would prefer to do so.

AP I shove. I've seen way too many absurd hands get it in OTF in LLSNL to consider folding a set here.

Sickest thing is that, someone folded bottom set against my flopped straight again tonight. (maybe it's my image?)

#HiJackingYourThreadSorry

Broken bet button ITT.

I like an open raise pre but w/e. Id just lead into the field as played. All kinds of 2p, pair+sd hands to get value from.

As played Gii.

^ Please stop calling this a raise, old dude. The displaced Asian dude cannot raise himself.

OTTH, OTF, you see str8s here a lot, esp. J9. You also see two pair, like KQ in the hole. Obviously your set is a big dog to the srt8 and a genuine favorite over the 2 pair. So this is something like a WAWB situation, and you need to determine whether its WA or WB.

Obviously shove WA and release WB. And no one reading the HH can tell you which.

^ Poker is highly situational/circumstantial, and there's no indication OP has bad reads. The flop and the action reeks of big hands; OP just needs to decide whether his is biggest.

Not way ahead/way behind. We have 7 outs once and ten outs once, so 1 in 3 times we're going to win against the straight. Also against KJ or QJ they have 8 outs twice. The only hand that's truly in.bad shape that can gii is an opponent's KQ.

First, we almost have to raise preflop. I'd rather limp the lower pairs exploitatively than a hand this strong.

Donk betting this flop could be ok. Lots of action killing turn cards, almost too many to risk a check through. As played, just jam over the bet and raise. What are we hoping for if we call? We would much rather be against one player than two here, because we might be dead against two players.

You're assuming we get HU v. the straight, and the guy who drops out had none of our outs. I'd call that optimistic. Granted not as optimistic as assuming one has J9 and one has AJ.

You're behind, but you shouldn't fold. You're definitely going to get at least two others all-in OTF.

Close your eyes and ship it. Open them to see a paired board.

Oh

I'm old and pedantic enough to hate that I called that a raise