2/4 Top Set Dry Board Situations
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 22
I raised to $18 pre-flop with QQ (no diamond) UTG+1, 3 callers that have position on me.
Flop comes Q73dd (pot is $67)
I've had situations come up like this often. What size should my bet be when I flop a monster multi-way like this, the board is pretty dry and the only thing I'm worried about is a flush draw?
My thinking is that I would 2/3 to pot-size it and give any flush draw terrible odds to call. The only value hands that would come along would be things like KQ, sets, concealed over pairs.
But is it better to bet smaller (say $25-35) to induce calls from weaker hands such as underpairs to the board (88-JJ). Flush draws wouldn't have the direct odds, but I'm putting myself in a spot make more difficult decisions on later streets. One call might also induce others to call with absolute trash.
I guess this is a question more about whether it's a good idea to go for thinner value in these spots. (Flopping monsters on dry boards w/ only flush draws to worry about)
What do you guys usually prefer doing in these cases? Do you just standard bet and hope people run into you with those value hands? Or would you rather try sucking a little more value from marginal hands but expose yourself to the danger of a flush?
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,422
Four ways to the flop, just bet for value, imo. This is doubly true if any of the players behind will get aggressive when a third diamond falls, and you may not necessarily be able to fold when this happens. Your hand is strong enough that you are offering any FDs decent implied odds at this point, assuming 100+ bb effective stacks to start the hand. Everything else is drawing more or less dead, but there's value to be had from flush draws, top pairs, smaller sets, and possibly 88-JJ and and slowplayed KK-AA.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 19,982
In a spot like that, you are usually only getting called by 1.) flush draws, 2.) sets, and 3.) top pair hands or nonbeliever middle pairs (7+).
--It doesn't matter what we bet against the other sets - the money *should* be getting in there somehow,
--Most villains will call with their flush draw, odds be damned.
--So our question becomes how can we get the third group to put money in the pot? Usually for me I simply cbet my standard in this situation, which would be roughly 2/3 of the pot. If they have a hand that will call $25, they will probably $40 just as easily.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 13,362
Betting into 3 players here is going to look strong regardless of how you size it.
Its just really hard to get paid when you flop top set. There's not that much you can do. On this board, in a multi way pot, they're either calling or they're folding regardless of bet size. So I'd make it big, maybe $55 or $60. I think 88-JJ has a hard time calling you even if you bet like $45. So the bigger the better.
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 12,487
Depends on table dynamics and villains in the hand
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke0424
Betting into 3 players here is going to look strong regardless of how you size it.
Its just really hard to get paid when you flop top set. There's not that much you can do. On this board, in a multi way pot, they're either calling or they're folding regardless of bet size. So I'd make it big, maybe $55 or $60. I think 88-JJ has a hard time calling you even if you bet like $45. So the bigger the better.
YUP
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,468
It really really depends.
For starters, it depends on texture and villains' ranges.
This flop is two tone - it's not so dry. It's not very connected, but yes, there are possible gut shots. And some more context - you're 4-way.
You should bet this flop in this situation almost always for value.
Contrast to this situation: You're heads up holding QQ on Q72r.
That flop is bone dry. With only 1 villain in the hand, there's very little likely value to be had. You have crushed the flop, and it's almost impossible for villain to have a second best hand. After all, you account for 3 Q's - very hard for v to have top pair. This is why flopping middle set is generally MUCH more profitable than flopping top set.
So in that situation, you should check a lot and see if you can win some bets on future streets, or if villain might bet into you, or if villain might bink an A or K and pay you off more significantly.
And every situation in between, you need to weigh the variables (including reads/tendencies, which I really didn't discuss) and decide.