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2/4 private game turned set river flush 2/4 private game turned set river flush

02-12-2018 , 09:44 AM
Private 2/4 game, plays like a 1/2 game at a casino, except standard preflop raise is 3-4x BB.

Hero: Looser than normal TAG, probably viewed as ok but not great.

Villian: high vpip. sticky. Will call bets with really anything, overcards, etc. Plays weak hands out of position. Not particularly aggressive but can be spazzy in big pots. Known to slowplay oop.

Hero dealt JJ
V limps, UTG+1 limp, Hero raises to $24. Villian calls, UTG+1 folds

($58 pot) Flop K96
Villain checks, Hero bets $29, Villian calls

($116 pot) Turn J
Villian checks, Hero bets $79, Villian calls

($273 pot) River 6

Villian goes all in for $211, Hero?

Leaning towards a fold but river seems like a good card to spaz out with two pair or a hopeless sort of middle pair + gutshot. I don't think this player would c/r turn with such a hand.

Are we good 30%+ of the time? How bad of a call is it?
2/4 private game turned set river flush Quote
02-12-2018 , 10:17 AM
I can only assume the river is actually like a 5. I'm calling.
2/4 private game turned set river flush Quote
02-12-2018 , 10:26 AM
My mistake, the river was something like 5c or 4c.
2/4 private game turned set river flush Quote
02-12-2018 , 10:27 AM
If he will slowplay oop and is also spazzy, he can do this with QT as well as flushes. I don't think many villains are going to call two streets waiting to bluff if/when a scare card hits the river. If he spazzed and got one through with K9 or Kx, good for him. But this is usually a flush.
2/4 private game turned set river flush Quote
02-12-2018 , 11:31 AM
Although we can calculate it, it's helpful to provide effective stacks in the intro. Looks like 343 here.

Off topic commentary: I'd make your bets round amounts; keeps the dealer happy and the game moving along faster. 25, 30, and 80 are basically identical to 24, 29, and 79 but avoid making change on every street.

Another one: you mention standard raise is 3 - 4 BB. Is that your standard raise, or everyone else's? If it's yours, is that because you've determined that this is the most you can raise without compressing typical calling ranges, or are you going with the flow? If the latter, I'd suggest reconsidering. You should be choosing your raise size based on what you want to accomplish.

Anyway...

I think against this V we should bet more OTF. Normally, I'd be balancing my desire to charge draws around T8, 87, clubs, or whatever against the fact that I might well have been outflopped, but if V has a high VPIP he's just not very likely to have us beat. If he peels really light, betting more isn't going to compress his range.

Against his guy, we should be considering whether he'll get it all in with something worse. Would he call 55 OTF and 150 OTT with his usual wide range or a draw?

AP, I don't think it's a bad call, given V can get spazzy sometimes. We don't beat much, but maybe he's turning a K into a bluff or had some other draw and is now bluffing the clubs. I don't think folding would be bad either. Unfortunately, V is probably bluffing with around the right frequency here, so it doesn't much matter what we do.
2/4 private game turned set river flush Quote
02-12-2018 , 12:51 PM
I would have a tough time folding with middle set getting better than 2-1. YOu played the hand fine and V called with bad odds the whole way to chase.
2/4 private game turned set river flush Quote
02-12-2018 , 02:05 PM
Maybe I'm wrong here, but I don't see how a not particularly aggressive villain is going to go limp/call, x/c, x/c, jam with worse than a set here. He can't think Kx is going to be good or have FE on this board, can he?

EDIT: Maybe specifically bottom set. Way more QT and flushes in range than 66, and I don't buy Kx.
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02-12-2018 , 03:42 PM
Next time charge this particular V higher for the draws.

$35-40 on the flop, $110+ on the turn.

At the given stack size ($343 for V, so only 85BB), we should be putting him to a decision on the turn. Board is soaking wet and hits a bunch of his draws so there's no need to slowplay against a sticky calling station. Charge him the max.

As played, I think we fold though. At low stakes this is heavily weighted towards straights and flushes...
2/4 private game turned set river flush Quote
02-12-2018 , 04:25 PM
As others have mentioned, it's hard to come up with a lot of hands we beat here. Is a loose, sticky, passive villain really turning K9, 96, etc. into a bluff here very often? Likewise, even though he might slowplay a fair amount, this is a pretty gross board to check call the flop and turn with if he has 66, 99, KJ, K9, or QT - it's pretty easy for 1 pair hands in your range to just check back the turn there. It's worth noting that if the river was the 5c, that makes a straight for 78 (hearts, clubs, or anything else if he's really loose/sticky).

What could he be bluffing? It seems he might show up with some 9x (A9, Q9, T9, 89, 79) or 6x (A6, 65, 67, 68) of hearts here on occasion that he bluffs with. Not sure that's enough combos to make the call good, though. Do we think he's capable of taking this sort of line for value with hands we beat (or turning 2-pair into bluffs as noted above)? If not, it seems a bit grim.
2/4 private game turned set river flush Quote
02-12-2018 , 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Case2
Another one: you mention standard raise is 3 - 4 BB. Is that your standard raise, or everyone else's? If it's yours, is that because you've determined that this is the most you can raise without compressing typical calling ranges, or are you going with the flow? If the latter, I'd suggest reconsidering. You should be choosing your raise size based on what you want to accomplish.

Anyway...

I think against this V we should bet more OTF. Normally, I'd be balancing my desire to charge draws around T8, 87, clubs, or whatever against the fact that I might well have been outflopped, but if V has a high VPIP he's just not very likely to have us beat. If he peels really light, betting more isn't going to compress his range.

Against his guy, we should be considering whether he'll get it all in with something worse. Would he call 55 OTF and 150 OTT with his usual wide range or a draw?

AP, I don't think it's a bad call, given V can get spazzy sometimes. We don't beat much, but maybe he's turning a K into a bluff or had some other draw and is now bluffing the clubs. I don't think folding would be bad either. Unfortunately, V is probably bluffing with around the right frequency here, so it doesn't much matter what we do.
This is good advice.

Seems like a mixed bag between calling and folding so pretty marginal either way. I could have avoided this sort of thing and gotten more value by betting larger on flop and turn.

Since topic seems to be discussed pretty well, the result is
Spoiler:
QT
2/4 private game turned set river flush Quote

      
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