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2/4 NL at Crown Casino - I messed up. 2/4 NL at Crown Casino - I messed up.

11-17-2013 , 06:53 PM
Ok so a fun 2/4NL game in Melbourne. Game is quite loose with stacks going in on various cooler boards etc. People seem willing to play a bit. Hero is late twenties, probably seen as a winning player, but maybe a bit more on the cautious side. Ive shown down one hand when i called down Villain 3 with AJ on AKT56 board to win a 350$ pot.

9 player table.

Hero - UTG - 700$
Villain 1 - MP - 500$ - Straightforward younger player
Villain 2 - MP - 400$~ - mid thirties man, maybe slightly tilted. He has rebought and is in for around 700$
Villain 3 - Button - 600$ - Old chinese gentleman - will play a range of hands. Quite bluffy.


Hero is UTG with Q J -


Hero calls 4$
Villain 1 - raises to 15$
Villain 2 - calls
Villain 3 - calls
Hero - calls 11$

Flop - 66$ - Q J 4

- Hero bets 50$

- Villain 1 folds
- Villain 2 calls 50$
- Villain 3 folds

Turn - 166$ - Q J 4 8

- Hero bets 80$ - Should be 125$ or so?

- Villain 2 - raises to 170$ - he has roughly 180-200 behind.

Hero?



My first mistake is the limp - i should be raising to 15$ or folding here. However i wanted to get in cheaply as a few hands earlier i limped KK, with a plan to LRR and was limped and checked around. Maybe i over estimated the aggressiveness of the table.

Second potential mistake is leading flop - should i CR here all day ? I like leading sometimes as a CR does display my hand strength more in some situatiions.

Turn - My sizing is way to small i think. I need to bet over 100$ for value, although i see villain as a slightly fit or fold kinda player. If he doesnt like his hand a bigger bet will scare him off from him KQ type hands.

Comments welcome on all streets. Also tell me off for being a donk pre. Cheers
2/4 NL at Crown Casino - I messed up. Quote
11-17-2013 , 07:35 PM
Limp is okay but I prefer raise pre.

Leading flop is good. I prefer $40. Your bet is a bit scary and the board isn't -so- wet.

You should bet the turn a bit bigger, yes.

I fold. He can't be bluffing here. We have no reason to believe he's dumb enough to do this with KQ. Looks like 44 or T9 exclusively.
2/4 NL at Crown Casino - I messed up. Quote
11-17-2013 , 08:17 PM
Fold pre. At this table, QJss UTG is not a profitable spot.

Turn is really gross. Obviously should have bet around $120. As played, just make a read. If he's really tilted, I call and call any river.

Against a player who doesn't bluff, this is a fold.
2/4 NL at Crown Casino - I messed up. Quote
11-17-2013 , 09:39 PM
I called. River is

Q J 4 8 7c

Hero?
2/4 NL at Crown Casino - I messed up. Quote
11-17-2013 , 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matzah_ball
Limp is okay but I prefer raise pre.

Leading flop is good. I prefer $40. Your bet is a bit scary and the board isn't -so- wet.

You should bet the turn a bit bigger, yes.

I fold. He can't be bluffing here. We have no reason to believe he's dumb enough to do this with KQ. Looks like 44 or T9 exclusively.
For the most part agree here, I think there are bluffs in his range especially when we think he's tilting. Not to mention, if V really hit the nuts here, does he really want to scare away his customer?

I'm only flatting turn expecting to call shove on river.
2/4 NL at Crown Casino - I messed up. Quote
11-17-2013 , 10:42 PM
I guess he could be spazing with KT. But we've shown strength. "Could be slightly tilted" isn't enough info for me to think villain is really bluffing in such a weird spot.
2/4 NL at Crown Casino - I messed up. Quote
11-17-2013 , 11:07 PM
I sometimes like a smaller lead on the turn, as small as 25. Alot of players will perceive this as week and raise hands that we have great equity against. How often does he Cbet. If you think he will Cbet then the check raise is probably best. Pre flop isn't terrible but obviously limp/calling utg is not something that should be done often.
2/4 NL at Crown Casino - I messed up. Quote
11-18-2013 , 01:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matzah_ball
I guess he could be spazing with KT. But we've shown strength. "Could be slightly tilted" isn't enough info for me to think villain is really bluffing in such a weird spot.
The guy was clearly down and his comment - "i keep getting hands like AK and missing. Im so unlucky in this game." made me think he was a fish.

I checked the river.
2/4 NL at Crown Casino - I messed up. Quote
11-18-2013 , 02:46 AM
I can't really see folding here..It's Crown, people overvalue hands too much, not to mention random spazzes
2/4 NL at Crown Casino - I messed up. Quote
11-18-2013 , 02:53 AM
Once we call OTT, were calling if the river bricks.
2/4 NL at Crown Casino - I messed up. Quote
11-18-2013 , 03:12 AM
I don't really see the merit of calling the turn over shoving. If the plan is to check-call any river then you're saving nothing when he has you beat, all you accomplish is potentially letting him off cheaply if he's overplaying something worse that might call off the rest but check behind on some bad river cards.

Anyways, it doesn't really matter since this is a fold. His line is pretty much always 9-T or 4-4 and you don't have odds to go for four outs.
2/4 NL at Crown Casino - I messed up. Quote
11-18-2013 , 04:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d_saxton
I don't really see the merit of calling the turn over shoving. If the plan is to check-call any river then you're saving nothing when he has you beat, all you accomplish is potentially letting him off cheaply if he's overplaying something worse that might call off the rest but check behind on some bad river cards.

Anyways, it doesn't really matter since this is a fold. His line is pretty much always 9-T or 4-4 and you don't have odds to go for four outs.
Agree with you here. I should have folded/shoved. My choice of calling was probably the most meh.

Anyway he checked back and showed QT, so i won a nice pot. If i shoved the turn i am 95% sure he would have called it off.

He ended up stacking off in a similar 'f it i call' kinda dejected way a few hands later.
2/4 NL at Crown Casino - I messed up. Quote

      
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