2/4 9 handed, loose preflop game

1 limp,
MP1 makes it 20 (400)
MP2 calls (525)
HJ calls (450)
I'm in the CO w Q4s and call (520)
Button who is a tight player raises to 75 (350)
Limper folds
Initial raiser in MP1 calls 55
MP2 calls 55
HJ calls 55
Hero.......?

I'm sure many of you will suggest fold pre for 20. However once I call the 20, is it mathematically correct to call the 55 more, closing the action?

I calculated that I'm getting almost 6 to 1 on my money.


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Fold to the initial raise. Than kick yourself and fold to the 3bet, and tell yourself to stop calling with total garbage in multiway pots.

Despite the 6-1 odds, this hand really has almost nothing going for it. Either shove to make your flush draw good (and realize you are way behind here to BB), or fold. 6-1 is not nearly enough to take this RIO hand multiway.

You should acknowledge the guy did you a favor by punishing your God-awful call of the $20, berate yourself for being such a fish, thank him, and buy him a drink.

"Pot odds!" is almost NEVER a good reason to make a bad play.

Think about it: you're going to the flop with a bloated pot, which means whoever leads otf is probably coming out for half your stack, if not open shoving. This means you need to totally hit gin (Q44 or mono clubs) to even continue. How many times is that going to happen? Now compare it to your 6:1 pot odds. Any more questions? Good.

Uh, no, you should not call a 3-bet with Q4 suited.

You should not call a raise with Q4 suited.

Fold pre.

If I was to call you a shmuck then I may get banned. Therefore I will carry on thinking you're a shmuck. Good.

That's for all the well worded advice guys.

My thinking was that given the table dynamics, I may have been able to turn my hand into a bluff on the flop, therefore not just calling to flop a flush draw trips, or a Q on a Q high board.

It was perhaps optimistic and flawed thinking.

I've posted a lot on this forum over the years and it's a shame that the few 'numb nuts' who have joined in more recent times can't just post a good reply without being disrespectful and derogatory.

We are all here to learn and develop our game. However it would seem, like those 1/2 'specialists' who have made such remarks like to use the forum to inflate their egos.

I've met a lot of live players over the years in many countries and the conclusion that I am often able to draw from experience is EGO=Losing Player.

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I don't think anyone is calling you a terrible player. The hand is just so standard that it's hard to not sound sarcastic when offering advice. You may need to follow your own advice concerning ego and accept critisicm when seeking advice

Granted knowing that it would be going AT LEAST 4 way to the flop with your call, not the most opportune time to bluff.

Anyways, no OP this is the exact definition of "compounding mistakes" that can get you into a world of hurt later on in the hand.

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Thanks Mack.


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It would be better to just 3b yourself but like everyone else said, you should fold

Implied odds are more important to consider in this case than pot odds.

Rather than considering your immediate odds you should be paying more attention to the amount you have to call relative to the effective stacks between you and the 3-better. The 3better here is the one with the tight range that we want to go after here. However, he has less than 100bbs. We are calling $55 and then he only has $275 back. It's not worth it to set mine here much less call with suited connectors much much less call with Q4.

This part seems to capture the difference in opinion between yourself and your critics. You've described the table as a "loose preflop game," and you seem to think you have a significant amount of postflop fold equity. In my experience, you would have very little postflop fold equity even if the button had folded and the hand went down as a single raised five way pot. Sure, you have position. But at this level we simply won't be able to fold out four opponents without risking a very significant portion of our stack. We'll have a semi-bluff opportunity when the board runs out T 8 4 J, but even then we can run into a disaster if we end up betting into a hand like A J. In general I think we can wait for better spots.

Irrespective of what other posters posted that u dint like, am sure u honestly know ur self that it's a fold for the initial open and a def fold for the three bet.. People will rarely fold on three bet pots if they are strong and we rarely have fold equity as we won't be able to profitable rep much on various flop textures.. I too play a lot of live and the bottom of my range for colding a 3! Would atleast be a suited connector or small pp multiway.. Good luck bro

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Thanks for the last few replies in particular. I didn't think that the call for 20 was that horrible multi way but you have all confirmed now that it was.

I folded to the 3 bet, the board was Ks3d2s and the player to my left took it down with a bet on the flop and tabled aces.

I suppose if I had of incorrectly called I'm then getting it in on this board when checked to me given that the pot was 387 and villain only had 275 behind.

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Without a doubt.