Qh5h SB
8 way pot
Effective stacks ~$500

(Most definitely a fold pre hand especially in SB. I hadn't won a pot in 4 hours or played a hand in about 2 (card dead) and a couple hands after this I left, realising I needed a break to regain my focus)

$16 bet from MP, all but one call, very loose table with medium/big average pot sizes.

(Asian guy in MP was preflop raiser and I have seen him get it in very big pots relatively light. Fish in BB plays every hand by limp calling)

Ah5d4h ($104)
I check, BB checks, $35 Asian recreational player bets, I call, bb calls

Ah5d4h Jc ($209)
I check, BB checks, $95 Asian bets, I call, bb folds

4s river ($399)
I check, he shoves, I fold

My question is about the turn.
In this spot I feel I have 14 outs, or at least 11 if he has AJ.
Had I hit, what would be the best move on the river? Obviously I wasn't getting the right pot odds so how much do I need to extract on the river to make it profitable in the long term?
What would be the best size?

Up to the turn, what range would you apply?

fold pre next time

as played the turn call is -ev. In "general", any time you have to call someone down to try and hit your hand (with less than perfect odds) it's minus ev. But this all started by calling pre with a bad hand.

idk about the implied odds. when the third heart comes out otr don't you think he will be less than willing to get his stack in

Fold pre is obvious but the real point is about the situation of being oop in this spot in general (pair with flush draw) vs an opponent who gets it in light and is in lots of big pots.

Assuming we have 11 or 14 outs, when we hit, how much do we need to extract to make calling the turn profitable.
If a heart comes, would leading out around $135 and expecting a call make our turn call profitable?

Or, if we are sure we can make that extra $135 otr if we hit, doesn't our decision play as if we have to call $95 to win $436 ($301 + $135 =$436)?

but we can't assume we will get paid off if we hit, so we would have to use the odds at hand which are less than optimal.

Also, those are barely break-even odds. I would rather have much better than 4 to 1 in these spots rather than nickel and diming it..

Do we even need to get payed? We got direct odds on the flop, and 3.5-1 on the turn. If you think your two 5 outs are good, and maybe discount your three Q outs, you are basically getting direct odds. I'm not the biggest fan of chasing flushes in general because the IO are so bad, but this one he's giving DO. The real Q is how much over BE do you need to make up for how -EV the pre-flop call OOP is...

Lol lots of abbreviations in this one. I'm becoming a real forum brahh

Thanks. Makes sense to me. That's why I hate drawing oop and usually look for reasons to fold in general oop. Also, I believe have a big edge over this guy and I should have just waited for a better spot rather than call in a very marginal situation.
Calling Q5s in the SB, it's clearly time for a break haha.

Agree pre is a fold but against a narrow range of AA, AK, AQ hero is a 2.66:1 dog getting 3.2:1 on a call.

Obv implied odds are difficult to realize with only 1 card to come oop when the bulk of our outs result in a flush and a Q will sometimes carry RIO. But hero is getting immediate odds to call turn.

Edit: as for ranging villain, with no reads and not knowing if $16 is a standard pf raise here (seems small) a pf range is a little tough to assign. If we are just playing to make a hand it doesn't matter much since Ax and pps bigger than a 5 are certainly in his range.

Flop bet of 1/3 pot is small but again without reads it's hard to presume weakness or super strength otf I'd prob be putting more underpairs to the A in vs range and would some of the time be considering a c/r semibluff.

Having said that When he bets turn into 2 players it seems stronger but it's still less than 1/2 pot. A hand like KJhh is possible.

What sized semi bluff would you consider on the flop?
$35 into ~ $100 (minus capped rake) I'd have to pop it to around $95-$110 but I rarely take this line oop. If he calls, it's strong and if I miss I have to really check/fold the turn. There are still a few players behind (bb and early position checks). Usually I just play pot odds oop when drawing. Having the paid complicated things on the turn but with just a flush draw i would fold.

It's something I'd consider some of the time. I'd only go for a c/r when his bet sizing indicated weakness and if I knew he c-bet his PPs here. And yes the other villain's range is still uncapped so there is some risk there.

If he has hands like PPs between 66-KK in his range on the flop for example a c/r semi-bluff will fold those and we have really good equity when called. If his opening range was even just TT+ AK, AQ, AJs and he folded TT-KK to a raise he's be folding 36% if his bet size skews his range toward more weak hands you'd have more FE.

Like I said without reads it's pretty a straight forward drawing spot.

fold pre?


drinks?


LASAM ?


if bb bets?


call?


win 3or4:1?


0?


A 2-3-6...7-8-9...T-J ?