First time playing in this room. Been sitting a few hours playing fairly tight. Up 200, every showdown I was involved in I had it. However, It was a must move table and I was the last to arrive of the initial 9 players, making me last on the list to move. By this hand most of the original players have moved to main game so my image doesn't really matter much.

Dealt 3c 5c on the button. Don't remember pre action to much but mp made it 20, 3 callers and I decide to see a flop as well. Flop 4c 2c Kh. SB bets 10 (?) BB calls 10 and mp folds. I raise to 45. Both SB an BB flat. Turn 7d. SB bets 70 BB flats hero? shove to get other flush draw to fold and hope Villan with the K calls?


Edit sorry- stack sizes. Hero has 600, BB covers and SB has ~400

it would be cool to know the stack sizes for all involved

Yes, as you admit, this hand is garbage and should be folded pre. Also, while you tell us your stack has increased by 200, you don't tell us what it is, and, you don't tell us about Vs' stacks.

AP, your raise OTF is way too small. There is either 80 or 100 in the pot pre (hard to tell as written, but it seems like 100) By the time it gets to you, the pot is 130 with your and you raised it only $35 more. That gives you exactly zero FE.

Now pot is over $200, and SB donks out $70. With BB's call and yours, pot is $415ish. How much effective is left? You likely have little FE, and you are definitely getting expressed odds (if you're not facing a better FD). I'd probably just flat here and then punch myself in the nards for screwing up post and flop so badly.

Stack sizes are essential. I think I flat the flop as played given that we are in position, and probably very unlikely to fold out a better flush draw or Kx. If you do raise it needs to be much higher (assuming 100 bb stacks).

Yeah, the raise to 45 was pretty god awful. I thought that by raising a smaller amount it would hide that I was on a flush draw, if it was to hit the turn. Dumb thinking on my part?

Still need stack sizes, mang.

A lot of the value in raising combo draws comes from fold equity, especially in folding out the draws that dominate one half of your combo. You had no FE with that raise, and you didn't price it big enough to even come close to denying pot odds for draws.

Your thought isn't terrible, but it is only for nut flush draws. Then when you both hit, you stack instead of getting stacked.

I don't like raising the flop. You need fold equity and almost never get two players to fold. Without a non-nut flush draw, I flat. KcXc will never fold and even AcXc might stick around. Recognize the RIO.

If you think both are super weak, you need to make a substantial raise and shove all turns. You only made <1/4 pot-sized raise, a super weak raise. All that does it build a bigger pot with 5-high and allow a villain to reraise you. If you want to semi-bluff, make it $140 and bomb the turn.

As played, shoving is useless because you never get anyone to fold and you have 5-high. The turn becomes a pure odds play. I believe the pot is $375. I would call and take the 5:1 odds to hit something.

Make it $200 on the flop and probably call any jams.

As played, call the turn and shove any non club straight cards.
Likely donk for $200 or so on a flush river card.

flat or raise huge flop also I don't mind the call pre ip at these stakes people hardly notice you flatted the button

Sorry I added stack sizes in OP. Playing now but I'll update as soon as I'm home.

This was what i was thinking how i should have played the hand, but raising a 10 bet to 200 seems a bit high, no? anyway, I come over the top and shove over SBs 70, BB folds SB calls.

river K clubs

villan showed AK and i scooped with 5 high flush. BB said he had higher flush draw. Despite outcome, i know i played it bad and was looking for better ways to play each street. thanks guys

Here is the problem. Now you are essentially saying the raise to $45 is a pot-sweetener, and will disguise your hand somewhat if the flush hits.

A pot-sweetener like this is neither value bet (to get called by worse), nor bluff (to get better to fold). On the flop, you have 5-high. A semi-bluff, first and foremost, is a bluff. The main goal is to take down the pot, right now. The "semi-" part is only a backup plan for when the bluff fails.

So the flop raise needs to be large enough to price out other draws, and make Kx hands fear they have received into 2-pair or better.

Then think ahead... are you firing a one-and-done bluff? Should be at 80-100% of pot. Or will you shove on a missed turn? If so, need sizing to work for both streets -- don't make the pot raise so large that any V who calls will feel committed on the turn no matter what.


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How much would you have raised if you flopped middle set?


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I think I see what your getting at here. In that scenario I'd raise closer to ~120

Flop- V donks out 1/10 PSB and you reraise to less than 1/2 PSB..

I see what you're getting at but the bet sizing is WAY too small. You're only folding out maybe A3, A5, and 44, but a K, FD's and 77-JJ is calling this flop bet.

Furthermore, you're semi-bluffing w/ a 5 hi FD. Would you make this same r/r w/ 35o? I think you re overvaluing your combo draw. I think I'm gonna call and evaluate turn.

Turn- turn is essentially a blank, unless 77 got there. Since your bet was so small his entire flop range is still there, and he leads for 70. When BB's flat is likely a FD and 100% a better one than yours. You're a 5 to 1 dog so you need 6 to1 on your money to break even. pot is approx. 375 w/ 70 for you to call. youre getting approx. 5.2 to 1 so a call wouldnt be too bad.

A shove is an option here. V has approx. 470 after his bet. A shove would likely fold out everything but his sets, which you have about 30% equity against.

"This was what i was thinking how i should have played the hand, but raising a 10 bet to 200 seems a bit high, no? anyway, I come over the top and shove over SBs 70, BB folds SB calls."

Read this after I made my comment.

Well. Played. Sir.

don't let Villains terrible sizing induce you into terrible sizing as well.

I like calling the button getting at worst better than 4:1, seems standard to me. More than enough implied odds. I don't think I would ever fold this spot pre.

I like the raise size on the flop too, builds the pot and still leaves us room to maneuver. i might try 60 but 45 is ok.
WP so far

Turn is very interesting, it's close between shove and call.

Merits to calling:

We are getting more than enough odds and we can bluff some rivers when we don't improve. One of our outs is an ace so we have a better chance of getting value in that card.

Merits to shove:

We can clean up out ours vs betterflush draws that we can price out, we have plenty of FE I think

Standard play is probably just call but it's close enough that I can live with either option

raise flop to 120.

as played, BB has a bigger flush draw, so we are just calling for straight outs, unless we shove and try to get BB to fold and take the variance versus SB. no shame in folding, but the price is so cheap for the straight outs, and the straight flush outs, just flat and extract value on the river if you hit.

just read the results after I posted my initial post. Yeah, obvious that BB had bigger flush draw, and SB makes a horrible bet OTT. He should be betting at least 175 knowing that at least one of you has a flush draw.

I just read results too and that's the reason I liked shoving, to clean up our outs

WP