2/4 400 max bi full ring

Hero (UTG+1): tight image ~ 360
V1 (MP): agrotard image w/ wild bluffs ~ 1k
V2 (CO): loose passive. Old. ~ 400
V3 (BTN): unknown. a bit passive. ~500

Pre ($6)
hero opens w/ KhTh for $15 (standardish). v1 2 and 3 call.

Flop ($66)
8h7d3h
hero cbets 45. v1 2 and 3 flat.

Turn ($246)
6c
Hero leads for 150. V1 calls. V2 folds. V3 jams. I have 150 behind. I call and whiff. Did I take correct line?

I find that K9s- KJs plays very poorly out of position. I find that folding these hands until at least Mid position (table dependent) is generally more profitable for me. Even if I flop top pair, I'm often concerned that I am out-kicked especially if villain called my pf raise. As you found out, these hands play best as a drawing hand, which I do not like playing in a bloated pot OOP. Every street you suffer due to your position.

If you are determined to play this hand, I do not hate the pf raise, or the flop bet, but I may have bet a bit less OTF as you want worse draws to call. With two callers on the flop, I probably would have checked/called turn.

But the best line is fold p/f

Raise preflop is very loose. Flop c-bet with a good flush draw is OK but you want to go as small as you can and still be credible, so $40 would be better. When the flop bet gets 3 calls it's time to give up on aggression even if the turn was a brick. The 6c isn't a brick, it probably helped somebody.

When V3 jams calling is correct. You are getting well over the roughly 4:1 you need to chase your flush and no reason to think V1 has a nut flush draw. It was putting yourself in that situation at all that was the mistake.

I don't like opening this widely utg. Also calling his shove on the river, you are 18% to get there and are getting 4.6/1. So it's profitable to call with the line you took. Continually betting into 3 people is also atrocious.

Fold pre. KTs doesn't play well OOP. Check the flop. See how your opponents act. You're fine getting a free card and you have the option to check-raise. Same thing with the turn.

As played, you're getting good enough odds to hit the flush draw and should call.

You really need to pass on suited broadway cards worse than KQ in early position.

Turn bet into 3 players is way to aggro, someone is very likely to improve to 2 pair/straight on that turn. Check and evaluate.

Surprised by responses about pre-flop.

I'm definitely opening KTs.

Flop is fine.

I think the turn is fine. You're still very strong with 2 overs and a flush draw. With the money in the pot, it's going to be very hard to take a line that involves folding on the turn, i.e. prolly not check/folding. Betting the turn like you did is probably better than checking because maybe you get someone to fold a low pair or a weird Ax. Since we're almost always committed and going with the hand, betting yourself is probably going to be best.

How are you playing the turn?

We only have like 1.25 PSB left with 2 overs + the draw.

Obviously depends on action... but you prefer c/c or c/f to betting?

when i meant tight, i meant super tight. this was my first open raise since i sat down 40 mins ago. also, thoughts on jamming turn?

Yeah, open jamming turn may be best.

Nobody mentioned the straight draw we picked up on the turn. Still, with three callers, I think your fold equity is pretty much zero here. Basically anything but c/c (assuming one villain) works. Shoving > b/c.

Right, we picked up a gut shot as well.

With 3 callers I would be a bit concerned someone having the nut flush draw

Originally Posted by limon View Post
I love all of the posts that say disregard everthing I did before I got check raised all in on the river and just tell me what to do now. Its like, “hey Dad its me billy and im in jail. Don’t ask me why I got drunk (standard). Don’t ask me why I drove (yawn). Don’t ask me how my car ended up in a 7-11 (meh). Just tell me how to keep from getting buttfuqqed tonight.

The truth is the beginning of the hand is the MOST important part…BY FAR THE MOST IMPORTANT PART. Just like w/ 9 ball every shot sets up the next shot(s).


I think that this is important to note. Preflop was a huge error. Not the holding but the position. Because of this error, you have compounded the problem with several mistakes and now you are in this spot.

Imagine how much less you would lose if you were on the button here with the exact same hand? Would you have bet the turn had the same sequence of events happened but you were last to act?
Had you made your hand, would you have still made a good profit by betting the flop as you did, checking the turn and betting the river?

I think folding K10s in +1 is the best option preflop.
As played, idk. Probably barf call.

I'm probably the loosest player ITT and this is a fold pre. Check turn. Decision is now just a math question. Whether turn is a check/call or check/fold is also a math question.

Pre is a fold unless you have very good reads on how the entire table is playing both pre and post-flop. Otherwise we'll end up in RIO spots or being 3B too often for this open to be profitable. Flop is fine since we fold out under-pairs, ace-his and get called by hands which we're about flipping with (except NFD and 2P+).

On the turn I'm checking because we have almost no fold equity here for the following reasons:

-TP has not changed, and live players don't like to fold TP, especially if there's a draw possible

-A lot of one pair hands have picked up equity in the form of a pair + SD, which almost every live V is going to be very reluctant to fold

-T9 has now made the nuts, which is easily in the range of every V, and is obviously never folding'

If we aren't getting folds on the turn, the only other reason we would bet is to get called in multiple spots, and as such making the bet +EV. However, because we aren't drawing to the nuts, and all Vs can have the NFD here, this is not likely to be a +EV bet even if called in 3 spots.

In short, c/c a reasonable bet on the turn.

As played call, we even have the right price against T9.

i don't like the open pre UTG with this type of hand. you're going to be getting a lot of action from hands that dominate you and its a great way to level yourself. if you're going to play pot control when you hit a pair then you should have played pot control preflop as well.

the way you played this hand i would go ahead and jam the turn. you have about a pot sized bet left. what is the purpose of betting $150 into $246 you need fold equity to make this play profitable. we know sets/two pair are out of the question when everyone flats the flop bet. we're blocking 109 which is the only hand that got there. sooo jam.

Mostly check/fold. With 3 opponents you have to figure hero doesn't have a lot of FE and his two over cards are probably not good. Of course, if there is a small bet then it becomes a math problem but hero is unlikely to get the direct or implied odds they need to continue.

If it was heads up or against two opponents I knew had fold buttons I could see jamming turn some of the time. Against 3 it just isn't likely to work often enough.

I fold this PF from UTG+1.