This hand takes place at Oceans'11 this afternoon.

Mostly, I'm looking for a line check here.

(BTW... Brag, had the hand pounded pork tenderloin Benedict at Hash House Go Go for breakfast today... OMG, I may never eat again!)

Villain 1: $100 is UTG Edith. About 80 years old. Buying in for $100. Folding a few hands. Then getting involved in a pot and either folding to turn and river aggression, or showing down almost random broadway cards or AX hands. She has repeatedly misread her hand and continued in pots where she should have snap folded. E.g: had KJo on a QJxQy board and thought she had KQ (and got stacked by the player who actually had KQo). Then reloads for $100. Just rebought a few minutes ago.

Villain 2: $500 in MP Dave Thomas (from Wendy's). About 60 years old. Not really sure what to make of him. Sometimes he seems to be really thinking about what's going on, but then makes a very bad call or fold given the pot odds. E.g. He raises over a few limpers to $15 and get's 3b by the player to his direct left to $80 (who I'll call AA), and it folds back to him. He tanks and calls. Flop Kxx with two clubs. He checks. AA makes it $80 and Dave snap shoves for like $300, and AA snap folds face up his AA. Dave has KK. Then later, Hero shoves a river for like $80 into like $300 and Dave says, "I hate you short stackers" and tanks forever but then folds, LOL!

Hero: $280 on the Button Rodney Dangerfield, getting no respect. Has been playing, no BS TAG and have shown only premium cards for the past 3 hours. However, his open raises get called 3-4 ways, his PSBs get called the flop and turn, and has lost the last few big pots to 5 out draws, 2 out draws, etc. Hero twice folded a set on the turn, once to Dave, once to AA when the flush hit and villains donked into me for pot -- both times, villain showed the nut flush. Hero is on 3rd and final buy-in (has not said this to anyone).

Preflop: 5 limpers (including Edith and Dave) to Hero on the button. Hero looks down at KJ and raises to $21.

Blinds fold. Edit calls immediately. Folds to Dave who thinks for a few seconds and calls. Rest folds.

Flop ($68): 3 5 6

Edith checks. Dave checks.

Hero bets $50. Edith snap calls. Dave thinks for about 20s and calls.

Hero has $209 left.

At this point, I have no idea what Edith has, but its most likely Broadway cards, with an A. I'm not folding to her for any reason so I simply don't care what she does. Edith has $29 left.

I'm putting Dave on [22-JJ, AXs, 3x, 5x, 6x, 87]. I really think he's on a draw here most of the time. Dave covers Hero.

Turn ($218): 3 5 6 T

Edith checks. Dave checks.

Hero takes about 10s, then counts out $75 and bets.

Edith thinks for about 20s and then folds and says aloud, "Well, I can't call. I have AK and I can't call.".

This happens while Dave is tanking away. The dealer announces, "You all heard that right, she announced her hand as AK." Dave nods. I just look at the dealer wondering why he's talking...

Dave continues to tank for another two minutes or so. I'm actually starting to wonder what the heck is going on.

Dave finally calls.

At this point, I have Dave on a draw. I start to think he might not even have an A. I think the T may have given him a BDFD too. So I'm actually hoping to fade a [A, , 4, 9, 2], but otherwise, I actually feel pretty good about the hand at this point.

Dave never has a made straight here since he would have c/r the flop. Especially now that the flush is in on the turn. He's betting to protect his hand. LOL!

River ($368): 3 5 6 T 5

Dave checks.

Hero, has $134 left, and ... ?

1) Do we 3 barrel here?

I think K-high has some showdown value (Dave never has a K here, methinks), but I'm still afraid that Dave has a hand like A2s, A7s, AX, and I need him to fold these hands.

I also think Dave could have a pair and be willing to let it go if I bet.

Obviously, Dave's never folding 2p+.

Dave tanked forever on the turn. In the past when he's had a strong hand, he's always made quick decisions to bet or raise.

2) Should Hero have just shoved the turn and tried to take it down there?

I'd say yes when your winning. But maybe since you don't have a winning image and he is up a bunch he might snap you off light.

Since you bet the turn with your read that you have him beat, I'd continue. Sounds like he's the type to be fit or fold.

How about a little math for the bluff.

Assume we never bet less then AI. Hero has $134 remaining and the pot is $368. Villain covers.

Assume also that Hero is never good when called.

Break even success rate is (134/(134+368)) = 26.7%.

Have you shown the two sets? If so why? If not keep the BBV out, has no relevance.

Pre flop is fine for value.

Flop c bet is OK because their range is wide and the board does not hit it too hard. It is great to fold out Ax here.

When you get called in two spots stop putting money into the ****ing pot for **** sake. Your estimates for their flop calling ranges seem like you closed your eyes and hammered buttons on the keyboard.

"i think his range is 3x,5x,6x, 78. I think he has a draw!" Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm???????

You're right that the fact that I had sets is not important.

However, I think it is important to note that Villain donked out for pot with the nutz in prior hands.

And therefore, he is much less likely (and I think impossible) for him to have a made straight on the flop or turn.

I did not show the sets. But I admit I probably didn't look very happy about having to fold.

turn is very bad, because of the presence of edith. you got incredibly lucky imo that she folded here, but what was your plan? to get out dave and be stuck in the pot with edith, having no pair, no draw, k high? turn seems very bad.

Edith has $29 after calling on the flop.

I'm fine if Edith calls and Dave folds the turn.

Turn may/is bad by hero, but I don't see why Edith is the reason why.

Shove the river. Your turn bet was weak giving villain the odds to draw. Your pre flop raise was significant so he's probably putting you on a good hand. Edit announcing she has AK makes it less likely he will put you on that hand and call with a worse hand.

you can't win this hand checking probably, So i would go ahead and ship it.

Given your line I think this is a pretty easy shove on the river. You are rarely getting called.

Not going to comment on your line up to the river however.

when you got air and hate your money

AK

I appreciate comments on my entire line.

If I was watching the table personally I would have been more than happy to comment on your line. I just feel that 3-barrelling is almost purely about feel for your opponents, table, and image, and no amount of information you could personally provide me would really be sufficient that I could impart any insight.

Basically what I'm saying is - I don't necessarily think your line was bad. I just don't know.

I'm not sure how you can say my turn bet didn't properly price the draws.

My bet requires Dave to have 27% equity.

Assuming Hero's represented over PP...

A Pair, 2 outs, has ~6%.

An OESD, 8 out, has ~18%.

A pair+OESD, 13 outs, has about ~29%.

An OESD+FD, 15 outs, has about ~34%.

On the turn, I wanted to make an "obvious value bet", but leave enough in my stacks to have at least $100 left to barrel the river. I figured $75 did the job nicely.

Note, I wasn't too concerned about making my river bet large relative to the pot. I only wanted to have more then $100, so that it was a "big" bet.

I decided on the turn what my river action was going to be, as long as I faded the cards that most likely completed Villain's draws. I have to admit the 5 on the river made me puke in my mouth a little, but now only 5x really has a strong enough hand to call, IMO, and that's really just 65s, 53s and A5s -- not that many combos.

So while the $75 doesn't overprice a monster OESD+FD, basically any other draw is either getting a very slim price (OESD+P) or is not getting the right price at all.

The bottom line, given stacks remaining, I thought the $75 was the biggest turn bet I could make and still have enough chips to barrel the river if necessary.

Is this poor play?

I think his river call is exactly in line with your description of him and does not surprise me.

I really hate the raise preflop, but whatever, that's my style. We're in position at a table full of ******s with a hand that plays great multiway. See the flop for $3 and then stack one of these idiots postflop when we make our hand, poker is easy. A raise is just going to get called in multiple spots (which it always is, you've said so yourself), a lot of times by hands that are dominating ours, setting up crappy spots postflop in smallish SPR pots.

I hate our bet size on the flop. If I'm cbetting here, I'm making it a 1/2 PSB cuz there is absolutely no difference in what people are calling with regarding a 1/2 PSB and a full PSB; seriously, absolutely no difference at with these jokers. So make it as cheap as possible for us in order to make this cbet profitable. In truth, this isn't even a good flop to cbet as no pocket pair is folding this flop and we don't have any scary high cards to rep plus there is a straight draw that someone could chase. I'd check this behind a lot.

I don't think I like the turn bet either. Edith is never folding any pair so we're targetting exactly Ax and that it's; too small a range to target, imo, although I guess not horrible if we were just HU with her. The T is a scare card for 99-77/smallerpair, so we could maybe blow Dave off his hand, but it would have been better if it was an A/K (cuz that's obviously what he's putting us on).

River card is as unscary as they get, and even though Dave has made a lol fold before to a shortstack bet, I still don't like our plan of 3barrelling.

Gtobehonest,Ithinkwe'replayingthisgamebackwards;se eaflopforcheap,makeahand,thenvaluebettheseguystode ath;whyarewebluffing?G

^exactly how I was thinking about this hand.

+1. Know your villains. Great descriptions though. Triple barreling with air (maybe overs?) into these two is burning money. Double barrelling is burning money too. Nothing wrong with shutting down on the flop in this situation.

if he's getting called by 6 high out of position by a player who plays predictably post he's printing money with the PF raise.

I like a flop Cbet of 30-35 oft After getting called twice on the flop I'm done and trying to see a free river. Especially w the 80 yr old pot committed

As played to river its a close shove. ull get a fold more than 26%.