Hello everyone,

Having trouble analyzing this spot

$200 effective fishy table.

UTG +1 limps $3
UTG +2 limps $3
UTG +3 limps $3

CO (Hero) raises to $27 a5ss

SB calls

Folds around to me.

Flop ($54) J47ss

SB checks
Hero checks

Turn Ad

SB checks
Hero bets $35
SB check raises to $75

I didn't give too much thought into fish's range but in retrospect he's raising any overpair, 2p (AJ, A7, J7?) and sets (AA, 44, 77).

Seeing as I am getting ~4-1 on a call I don't think I'm ever folding here. However I have about $150 behind so calling turn and folding any non two pair, trips and missed flush seems like committing too much of my stack to ultimately fold.

In light of this I decide to 3 bet shove, but I again in retrospect I didn't put villain on a range and in a previous hand I noticed that villain is a calling station type (villain called preflop all in when villain is utg with JJ).

I decided to shove because I guess I would gain a tiny bit of fold equity and I would also make more when my rivered flush gets there.

What do you guys think? Did I play okay or should I have folded or maybe call/fold river given this nutted check raise range?

Thanks guys always appreciate the feedback.

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I think you played well. I like the preflop $27 .. (LOL) I will do the same .. wtf? in position with A5s? Yes! - I have that A5s in my range mixed all over positions, upfront, middle and in the back, blinds ... all over my A5s looks to see a flop or terrorize the monkeys. We all do that.

I would also have bet the flop with your draw to the nuts + one Over.

On the turn I would bet even more to make sure villain understands he's got no folding equity against me. If he raises I shove if he shoves I call his shove. Either way we're gonna play for the whole $200 each by the river. The bottom line is to bet heavier and heavier on each street. If he's got a Set on the flop .., well, that happens on one out of ten times (10.5%) the rest his pair misses the set 1:10 (9 time no set and 1 time a set) .. wtf? - I'm not gonna get scared about his FoS set .., (LOL) - I get sets too ..(LOL)

flop, you got to c/b in heads-up as the preflop raiser with 9 flush outs and 3 Aces overs that's 12 outs

turn, you bet because you hit your A plus the second bullet plus the 9 flush outs plus 2 Ace plus 3 fives that's 14 outs and you got a made hand of TP

river, you are committed by now so everything goes in if not earlier ..

well played, you are a heavy hitter ... with 12-14 outs and drawing to the nuts how can you fold? - unless he opens his hand and you see a set.

Unless you know the limpers are folding a lot here or have a huge post flop advantage and expect to get a single caller I would just limp along. A5s suited is easy to play post flop and has great drawing potential to the nuts. If you were going to raise $18-$21 would be a better sizing.

As played the flop should be a mandatory cbet. On the turn it doesn't make any sense to me for you to jam against villain's range. calling seems good but my guess is you're drawing to only your spade outs a lot of the time.



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If people are calling $27 iso raises OOP with $200 effective stacks, you should be overlapping a5 and widening your raising range to more value oriented hands, 10-10 plus and AJ suited plus.With A5 if i isolate and flop the nut flush draw with an overcard with a stack to pot of 3.2-1, I'm bet/calling the flop all in. Weird spot on the turn, I don't think we are ahead enough to shove as the raise looks supervaluey, id flat the additional $40 and fold if unimproved. Id expect to see AQ and AK a lot and since live players love to call but hate to be aggressive, you might get the added value of not having to put a dime in when it goes check, check on the river on weird cards/where he is always calling a shove.

At a fishy table (I read this as non-foldy and payoffy), and with shortstacks, I'd overlimp this 100% of the time here. Sounds like we probably have good IO at this table, in position, and might not be able to narrow the field with a raise, and even if we do could easily end up being dominated in a small SPR pot. Meh, imo, although in this case we ended up with a good result.

I have zero clue why we raised preflop with a speculative hand, got it HU in position with initiative where a cbet on even horrible boards might work a lot, and here we flopped ~nuttish and checked? You could argue a bet here is for value, let alone for FE. I 1/2 PSB and see if I take it down.

On the turn, I think now I would actually argue for a check. Our hand now has showdown value and yet wouldn't want to play for stacks UI, we don't fear any draws (since we have the nut one), we'd hate to be check/raised to be blown off our equity, and we're kinda actually repping the hand we actually have (never good). As played, I call as we're getting the immediate odds we need and our hand is actually kinda well disguised and should get payed off for remaining shortstacks.

Playing aggressively against a passive player who check/raises is suicide. We easily have the odds to just call here and can just fold the river if he continues and we whiff. My guess is that we got in all our money on the turn as a solid 5:1 dog.

Gwoulddosomethingdifferentateverysingledecisionpoi ntG

I'm okay with adding A5s into your preflop raise range, but yeah, think it's too big.

I'm okay with the flop check back.

I hate the 3-bet jam. You have 0 fold equity. Just call.

This hand is just terrible all the way around.

Raise less pre, bet flop (top of your equity) check turn as played (what exactly was he supposed to call with), just call now (0 FE)

Check your sizing pre. No need to go over $18imo. In fact, I think overlimping might be better here.

C-bet flop. It's great for us.

OTT, you're basically getting the direct odds to draw to a flush... flat.

pre is a little too big and i would also prefer to just overlimp. let players behind you come in with a variety of holdings that will have awful ROI against us. from the CO we will also be able to realize a decent amount of equity. raising is also fine though, but just consider overlimping.... having hands like A5s that can make the nuts in a variety of ways is a good hand to have multiway in LLSNL.

we should definitely be c-betting this flop in position once we squeeze. as played i am calling. had his sizing been much bigger we can let it go. im prob calling most river bets if i hit 2pair+ but i dont expect 2pair to be that good that often. but obv letting it go if we brick out and he fires a healthy bet.

To everyone saying the preflop sizing is too big :

At this game $15 is getting 3 callers if no one limps and $18 gets me to about 1 or 2. If I raise to $18 like a lot of you are suggesting, if any one person calls the limpers are also calling and now I'm in a huge pot with a non made hand.

Also I want to add of course I am also doing this with cards higher in my range, this hand is one of my bluffs.


Thoughts given this player tendency? Still too big? Doewnt make sense to create a huge pot as raising to the size suggested serves as a type of "pot sweetener" in this game.
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Overlimping > raising big to actually have a chance at narrowing field > folding > raising smaller (like others are suggesting).

GimoG

Every bet is an investment. Do you think A5ss can earn at least 9bb in this exact scenario over time not including rake considerations? I don't think it can. Probably can't for 6bb either but at least you save yourself 3bb.

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So what about doing the same thing with AJo, KQo etc hands like that? Those hands still miss the flop the same amount.

If I am only raising with premium pairs then I'm never getting action even from fish.

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I would say over limping > folding > slightly smaller raise almost = big raise.

With the big raise you probably steal more often but you also have to recoup 3 more bb so over all the hands it's probably pretty close to equal.

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I don't believe this, but it may simply be the game I play in.

I'm the nittiest player in my game and often get action (most times too much action) on my preflop raises (which is why I usually simply limp/reraise, where I'm fine still getting the action thanks to getting in a lol huge percentage of my stack). You could literally turn AA face up on the table and you could still get action. 98s can crack AA. No one ain't gonna fold 98s just cuz you got AA, that would be stupid.

Gcan'tcrackAAbyfoldingG

Ok so now I'm curious about what your preflop raise range vs limpers is now for CO. I am playing something like A9s+ 99+, KTs+, JTs+. I used to play tighter and I feel like I'd go through at times 2 hours of folding and making less money because when I would raise I'd get no action.

So now I'm still playing relatively tight and take advantage of my tight image even though in reality I'm playing looser than a typical nit.

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Also I have a question to everyone about the flop c-bet:

Seeing as this rather passive player is calling a relatively large raise OOP, My initial read on this player pool is that he has a premium pair or strong ace. Hence why I elect to not bet the flop having whiffed.

In this scenario had I bet flop I'm almost always getting check raised and I'm folding a significant amount of equity.

So my question is if I'm facing the check raise on the flop its an easy fold right?

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Pre is whatever. I wouldn't raise this big but if it is the right size at your table to get HU, then fine.

Why on earth are we checking the flop?

Why on earth are we betting the turn? What worse hands do we expect to call? What better hands do we expect to fold?

Why on God's green earth are we 3bet shipping the turn when we are being offered correct odds to draw after his tiny c/r?

You think this player is check-raising you with AK/AQ/KQ on this flop? Doubtful. And he has many more unpaired hands that whiffed (which are ahead of you, FYI, so you want to bet and make them fold) than he does made hands. Most of his big pairs would 3bet pre.

And no, if he c/r the flop I'm not folding the NFD. Do you even realize how much equity your hand has against a range of {44, 77+}?

I mean obviously it's really table dependent, but at my typical table I'm usually just raising the premiums (TT+/AK/AQs, maybe mixing in some slightly weaker broadway hands) after more than 1 limper. Anything else at loose tables is simply going to build a bloated multiway pot where my hand probably isn't *that* big of a favourite, especially if everyone else knows exactly where they stand in the hand postflop (and they normally do, especially relative to where I am which is typically flying blind with one pair).

If there's zero or 1 limper with tight blinds then I'll start loosening up my range in LP and try to take advantage of my nit image, but in general, this simply doesn't happen enough for me to be too concerned about.

Gbut,everyone'sgameisdifferentG

Well, I'll take a slightly dissenting position here from the others... I'm in 100% agreement that you ought to just over-limp pre-flop, but given that you raised pre-flop this is a flop you have to cbet.

But... as played I am fine with betting the turn. He checked flop & turn, odds of a x/r is really pretty small in this game. He could call with Jx, gutshot, worse flush draw, who knows what the eff else.

Once you get x/r just call. Aces are no good here but you still have the nut flush draw.