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/3 TT  UTG against Mississippi straddler /3 TT  UTG against Mississippi straddler

12-04-2017 , 07:32 PM
  • I have history against the straddler (BTN), he 3 bet me with pocket threes 30 mins prior to the current hand. ~$200
  • UTG+1 is an aggro Asian man that I have played many pots against. $350
  • MP is an unknown shortstack ~$100
    Hero $320 UTG with TT


Preflop
Button Straddles to $6, Hero UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP calls, BTN raises $40, Hero calls $40, UTG reraises all-in $350, MP calls, BTN folds, Hero ??

I had a discussion with a buddy of mine which resulted me in posting here since he didn't like my play. He said I could have raised the BTN straddler which I thought about doing at the time but my question for this was how much would I raise here? Minraise to $80? $100? $120? If I raise here and UTG+1 reshoves me, Could I even fold here with 1/3 of my stack gone?

Given the way the hand actually did play out, can I call here? I put UTG+1 on a range of 22-99, 78s+ given the initial flat. I would think he would 3bet me with JJ-QQ when I flat the $6 straddle since live players like him love to raise JJ hands for a large amount since they don't want to see a flop. AA-KK could be in his range to flat as a trap but I don't believe so since he has 3bet me with Aces prior.

Even if I put him on a low range, my friend said I am against 2 villains and even if short stack wins main pot ~$350, imo it is still profitable if I win sidepot even if shortstack has a stronger hand than me such as JJ+.

I don't have pokerstove to run the ranges, not sure if there is a new program out these days. I haven't played poker in ages.
/3 TT  UTG against Mississippi straddler Quote
12-04-2017 , 07:57 PM
You should’ve opened this hand in the first place. TT is way too strong of a hand to limp in a straddled pot
/3 TT  UTG against Mississippi straddler Quote
12-05-2017 , 01:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBussie
You should’ve opened this hand in the first place. TT is way too strong of a hand to limp in a straddled pot
I thought about that but I believed this hand was going to have some action behind my limp
/3 TT  UTG against Mississippi straddler Quote
12-05-2017 , 12:21 PM
It could be that the people behind you don’t think that anyone is too strong due to all the limps going on. With you being first to act, depending on your image, your range should look pretty strong to them and maybe this action doesn’t happen. But with no reads on the v who jammed for $350 I fold and take note of what was shown down for future hands
/3 TT  UTG against Mississippi straddler Quote
12-05-2017 , 12:43 PM
Yes I would have raised pre. And no you cannot call now.
/3 TT  UTG against Mississippi straddler Quote
12-05-2017 , 01:02 PM
I'm fairly cool with the open limp to evaluate the action.

I think we're in a fold vs raise spot preflop facing the Button's raise. We don't have setmining odds and there's going to be too many gross spots to setup a bluff catcher. If Button straddle raiser is an action player (which it seems he might be having 3bet the 33s) I think we might have to go with our hand here. He's only $200 deep, so I'd mostly shove the $200 if he's an action player.

As played, what do the other players think of you and the Button? It kinda looks like a couple of players limped with big hands possibly to trap the Button? Then again, shover is aggro and coldcaller is short, so it's not totally clear. I think we already screwed up by flatting the raise which has put us in an awkward spot, where I'd probably fold now, although it really depends if aggro guy ever limps big hands.

GcluelessNLnoobG
/3 TT  UTG against Mississippi straddler Quote
12-05-2017 , 01:44 PM
Raise pre to like $25, as played its probably a sigh call.

You're calling $280 to win $810, which means you need ~35% equity to be profitable. Discarding the MP player, who's probably calling almost any 2 cards after limping since he only has like 18 BBs after the straddle, and therefore likely is crushed by TT. Then we have to determine how much equity UTG+1 is likely to have against your hand after limp jamming. I feel like this guy is likely one of those "play the players" kind of guys, who feels that all your ranges are capped having limped pre and only called, and is trying to push the button off of his (probably) wide range that opens the button facing a bunch of limps. Therefore, he is jamming a wide bluffing range, which TT does well against, along with the few value hands that he limped UTG+1, which have TT crushed. I think it is reasonable to assume that we have at least 35% equity against MP and UTG+1, therefore you should call.

TL;DR
You've severely underrepped your hand by limping and calling preflop, so I think you should call, knowing that it is a very marginal call.
/3 TT  UTG against Mississippi straddler Quote
12-05-2017 , 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxerz
  • UTG+1 is an aggro Asian man that I have played many pots against. $350
do you know what range he is doing this with? Have you ever seen him l/rr from EP?

Normally this is a fold but if he's wide enough to do this wil 77+, AJ+ you can jam.

Raise pre next time
/3 TT  UTG against Mississippi straddler Quote
12-06-2017 , 02:49 PM
Do you think V would shove with 77+/AJ+? That makes it a coin-flip.
Maybe he saw Button 3! with 33 & is feeling frisky.
Question is: "Do you feel lucky?"
/3 TT  UTG against Mississippi straddler Quote
01-16-2018 , 12:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000
do you know what range he is doing this with? Have you ever seen him l/rr from EP?

Normally this is a fold but if he's wide enough to do this wil 77+, AJ+ you can jam.

Raise pre next time
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZuneIt
Do you think V would shove with 77+/AJ+? That makes it a coin-flip.
Maybe he saw Button 3! with 33 & is feeling frisky.
Question is: "Do you feel lucky?"
Yes, I do think he does this with 77+ AJ+, I called. He had 77, and 7 flopped, cooler.
/3 TT  UTG against Mississippi straddler Quote
01-16-2018 , 02:48 AM
I prefer if we just go ahead and raise 20 as the first into the pot.

There are other people at the table you need to worry about.

If you think button is a spewy maniac raising with K9s+ (you haven't provided much info on that other than that he beat you with pocket 3s) then I prefer a limp-raise to 100 to isolate the maniac and planning to puke/fold in the unlikely event that the 350 stack jams.

As played after UTG+1 jams we have to fold. A lot of the time we'll be in a race with AK but other times he'll have JJ+

We kind of induced this play with our limp/call preflop. I don't know what our plan for the flop was. Hope for it to be heads up and Check/raise jam any board? Why not raise or fold preflop rather than risk playing a bloated pot oop with a middle pair and 4 players.

Last edited by Nogyong; 01-16-2018 at 03:03 AM.
/3 TT  UTG against Mississippi straddler Quote
01-16-2018 , 02:53 AM
BTW limp/raising to only 80 looks a little weak and risks inducing UTG+1 to jam wider than he would otherwise.
/3 TT  UTG against Mississippi straddler Quote
01-16-2018 , 04:22 AM
If you limp TT in this spot, I think you need to push over the button raise with these stack sizes (fold would be too weak in my opinion). In order to flat the raise, you need to be much, much deeper.

As played you need to call, based on description of the Villain with 350 stack he could be squeezing worse/overcards and you are getting fabulous odds.

That said, I hate the preflop limp.
/3 TT  UTG against Mississippi straddler Quote
01-16-2018 , 09:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogyong
BTW limp/raising to only 80 looks a little weak and risks inducing UTG+1 to jam wider than he would otherwise.
A min raise here to me looks stronger than a bigger raise. Usually people in bloated pots min raising gives me the perspective of trying to reel people into calling because they are getting perceived odds to call when they really aren't. I would think that he would think I'm not light 3 betting a tiny amount Because I'm scared and testing the waters
/3 TT  UTG against Mississippi straddler Quote
01-16-2018 , 09:28 PM
One of the interesting dynamics here that nobody mentioned here was the MP with $100. If I flat 40 and UTG+1 does as well, MP has 3 options. Fold, call or raise. If he just called He would have to call all flops so he may just shove and reopen the action. Of course he has 0 fold equity if he shoves but he reopens the action Which could lead to all of us flatting 100 but also cause any one of us to shove over. Based on my reads and history, I was ready to call either UTG1 or BTN as side pot was juicy and my equity against their ranges was strong. UTG1 had more reason to raise me after my straddle limp but a call there is PPs, Ax, SCs. BTN should have widest range since he has 3 bet me with 3s, he mississippi straddled and has position. People say that this is a flip and if you calculate your EV with all the dead money, I think it's profitable although super high variance. Of course, standard PFR would have been the easier line to play. I don't ever do this online because bet sizings are so small relative to stacks.
/3 TT  UTG against Mississippi straddler Quote
01-17-2018 , 06:41 AM
I don't think limp/calling or limp/min-raising raises to 20% of effective stacks out of position multiway with middle pairs is going to be +ev
/3 TT  UTG against Mississippi straddler Quote
01-17-2018 , 09:06 AM
I think you should call it off as played.

Pre-flop would recommend an initial raise of 25-30 and as played jam over the $40 bet immediately
/3 TT  UTG against Mississippi straddler Quote
01-17-2018 , 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxerz
One of the interesting dynamics here that nobody mentioned here was the MP with $100. If I flat 40 and UTG+1 does as well, MP has 3 options. Fold, call or raise. If he just called He would have to call all flops so he may just shove and reopen the action. Of course he has 0 fold equity if he shoves but he reopens the action Which could lead to all of us flatting 100 but also cause any one of us to shove over. Based on my reads and history, I was ready to call either UTG1 or BTN as side pot was juicy and my equity against their ranges was strong. UTG1 had more reason to raise me after my straddle limp but a call there is PPs, Ax, SCs. BTN should have widest range since he has 3 bet me with 3s, he mississippi straddled and has position. People say that this is a flip and if you calculate your EV with all the dead money, I think it's profitable although super high variance. Of course, standard PFR would have been the easier line to play. I don't ever do this online because bet sizings are so small relative to stacks.
Do you have any reason to believe the BTN is not just some random buttonclicker? How much history do you have with him aside from that 1 hand?

The worst part of the hand was calling BTN's $40. You're not getting setmining odds and given the action, you're generally not going to be good here on a flop with a bunch of overcards.

1. Open raise to $20-25

AP1:
1. Raise BTN to $110-120 or fold.

AP2:
fold now.
/3 TT  UTG against Mississippi straddler Quote

      
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