Simple pre-flop question.

I'm in my 2nd orbit, I always buy in short and top off when I have a good handle on the table. Normally I play like a nit for the first hour or so in the process of figuring out dynamics of the table etc.

On to the hand and the question. There's a 6 straddle from seat 3, 2 limps with at least 300, H on the button and makes it 27, folds to s3 who asks how much I have when he can clearly see how much I have, and makes it 90. Folds back to me I have 193 left.

- I have almost 13% of my stack committed
- If we have JJ this is an easy fold for me
- This V is loose pre, and not super aggressive, but can make a raise here and there.
- With that being said, I think 90% of the time he's calling with AK/AQ pre and not 3b. His 3b range is almost always AA/KK and MAYBE JJ
- Do we still stack off given we started the hand with 70bb and we have QQ? Or can we muck based off of our read?

If you feel that strongly about your read then follow your read. I've folded QQ plenty against certain players.

I'd have a hard time folding with only 70bbs though.

The 70bb is the main thing here. I feel kinda guilty about folding QQ pre under 100bb, but as you've sorta alluded to, it's not often you're V are 4b pre w/o too many worst combos than QQ. We're either flipping against AK, 80/20 vs KK/AA and favorites vs JJ.

I go at least $30 pre, more like $35 w/ a limp out there.

QQ I'm usually just flatting pre & stacking off on non A/K boards. 4b shoving can't be bad at these stacks though. Maybe we can rule out preflop semi bluffs, but I won't rule out AK/JJ like you are, so I think it's fine to exploiably call & let it go on A/K flops, but stacking off otherwise (IE typical passive villain should have no bluff range on those boards).

This is a straddled pot so eff. Stacks are halved. You did not start the hand with 70bb. Closer to 35. Unless you're 1oo% sure this is AA/KK this is a trivial GII spot.

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I favor a fold but both shove and fold are OK based on read. The profit margin against AK/JJ+ is so small that as soon as you discount AK/JJ it's better to fold. But if you allow any bluffs, light raises or a value range wider the AK/JJ+ then shoving is best.

Deeper you could consider flatting and evaluating but with effective stacks that short I don't like it. It just lets him get away from the hand when he has AK and whiffs but he can still easily stack you when he has AA/KK and the board is safe.

Soooo straddle, limp, limp. Then you raise (too small btw). The straddle 3bets to only about 3x. Which is way small oop multiway. Fold fold... why is flatting the 3b not an option?

You can stack off vs boards without an A or K. Fold when a big broadway card lands and the straddle bets...

You have to pry this out of my cold dead hands before I let it go.

Ship.

Have you played with V before? I’m happily shipping JJ too if you only have one orbit on him.

Agreed

With a $6 straddle, your $220 stack is only 37bbs. Even against a loose-passive fish, I'd struggle to fold QQ for less than 40bbs. I'm stacking off here.

A few things I'd like to touch on. I had not gotten accustomed to table yet which is the reason for the small original raise. Normally I'd go at least 35 here, so agree with the bigger sizing pre.


I'm referring to this spot in a vaccum, but also non-straddled spots where there are a few limps, and H Iso's to say 20-23, and we get 3b to 70+

Is our default
- call and stack off on non A or K flop?
- ship it?

edit:
Our V in this instance is someone that might be playing 30/7 type vpip/pfr.

Is this the lowest level game in the casino you play at? If I'm playing 1-2 or 1-3NL live locally, I generally treat a 3b from an unknown as close to the nuts and I'm very cautious with it.

A lot of it is just player image, though: if it's a young guy with a hoodie that looks like the type that follows poker theory, I might look at it differently than the 54 year old woman who looks like she's been playing kitchen table games for 30 years. Versus unknowns, I think you can generally stereotype profitably to help make decisions.

This V is in his late 30s early 40s. One of the hands he played later was l/c J7s from ep, x/c flush draw on K64ccx, x/c made flush on T Qc and check tanked called when the river paired Qd

Just pointing out his pre flop range and looseness. He was sitting on about 300bb when my hand occured. From previous experience with him, he's not the aggro type and majority of my V in this room are pretty much the same as him when it comes to their 3b range. Very very narrow 3b ranges.


Believe it or not, the lower game in this card room is much much more profitble than the 2/5 game. Stacks tend to get deeper, and player plays just as if they have 100bb stacks. Nor cal games can be the nuts sometimes

Well, if I had seen V play that hand previously this would be a snap fold with QQ, if that helps. If most of the V's play that passively then when they 3b I'd expect to see three Aces most of the time, much less two.

Yea, kinda wish the J7 hand occurred prior to this.

Not to extend this thread any longer, V had AA. I felt I was beat pre, but I think I talked myself into calling given effective stacks only. Everything else was a lean towards folding. The asking how much I have, putting in a big bet pre, etc.

I dunno, the "how much do you have" question could work the other way.
i.e. when he sees you aren't that deep, he is ok committing himself pre with AQ/TT+ type hands.

And this V was the straddler? I have a really hard time folding QQ here, I think you gotta go with it.

This. Unless the villain is an OMC, I'm snap shoveling my chips into the pot here.

Also, bigger pre. Straddled pot and 2 limpers? There's already $2+$3+$6+$6+$6 = $23 in the pot? Going less than $40 here is criminal.

Only fold against the nittiest of nits and you need proof.

If we range him mostly KK+ and rarely AK/JJ/etc., then a nit fold is fine, imo.

With regards to "it's only 35bbs due to the straddle", I believe this is the wrong way to look about things because in the end he looks to be fine with getting in $220 stacks preflop. Now, that is by no means a monster stack, and it is a admittedly difficult spot, but it is not *nearly* as equivalent to how loosely a non-straddled stack of 35bbs = $105 could be gotten in (where this would be a snap commit, imo). i.e. most people at these levels think in terms of $$$ with regards to how much they are willing to get in with certain ranges of hands, not bbs due to a straddle or not.

GcluelessstraddlenoobG

Unless everyone is straddling I don't like looking at it as a 35BB situation either. The game is 2/3 not 2/3/6.

With this read, seems like an easy fold. You have a short stack, but that means nothing if their range is AA-QQ