Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
2/3 nl, TPTK turn decision, 300bb deep 2/3 nl, TPTK turn decision, 300bb deep

08-21-2018 , 08:35 PM
V1 is a mid 50s male. From what I've seen, he's a bad LAG player, likes to be involved in many pots and isn't afraid to gamble.

V2 is an early 40s male. He is probably one of the top cash game players in our city. He often plays at 5/5. I have a lot of respect for his poker abilities. We've spoken quite a bit and he knows that I'm inexperienced, but a smart player. He probably thinks (correctly) that I'm playing scared money.

Hero has been running fairly well this afternoon, and has worked his $250 short buy up to $900. V1 has been splashing around in a lot of pots, and is down to $400 from his initial $500. V2 covers.

I look down at AdKc UTG and raise to 15. V1 calls from UTG+1, V2 calls from BTN, BB calls. Pot=$62.

Flop: Ks,10c,4s
Hero bets $50, V1 and V2 both call, BB folds. Pot = $212.

Turn: 8d.
Hero checks, V1 bets $125, V2 calls. Pot = $462. Hero has $830 behind.

Normally I would have led this turn, but I decided to mix things up. I felt that with leading the turn I would be playing my hand somewhat face-up, since V2 should know that my UTG range is very tight.

I think there are 3 options in front of me: (1) Call turn, (2) Raise to around $350 to put V1 all-in, or (3) Shove.

Here it is important to consider that V2 is a very strong player, and he will be willing to bluff spade rivers if checked to (he's done this several times in our session). We need to take this into consideration when devising a strategy for how to continue with the hand.
2/3 nl, TPTK turn decision, 300bb deep Quote
08-21-2018 , 08:42 PM
I'd just bet the turn.

AP, I feel extremely good about V2 overcalling flop and flatting turn against the fish. If he had a better hand than TPTK we almost certainly would've heard more from him by now. I'd rip it in, the full $830, to blow V2 off his equity and maybe take the fish for his remaining $200.
2/3 nl, TPTK turn decision, 300bb deep Quote
08-21-2018 , 11:23 PM
Turn is one of the best in the deck, literally just keep betting, checking for the sake of mixing it up is not really a valid reason. Betting should yield more EV.

Ap i’d just raise big ott
2/3 nl, TPTK turn decision, 300bb deep Quote
08-22-2018 , 12:28 AM
Bet turn, but AP raise to $350
2/3 nl, TPTK turn decision, 300bb deep Quote
08-22-2018 , 06:16 AM
Thank you all for the responses. My issue with raising to $350 or even $400 was that if V1 calls, then V2 is getting proper direct odds to draw to his flush, or to his straight (I put him on QJ and J9 a lot here). There are a lot of bad cards on the river which also give him additional bluff equity. At that point I'm pot committed and am unsure how to proceed on the river if called -- am I shoving every river, even a spade? Or check/calling every river?

I figure that as long as his value hands make up less than 15% of his range, shoving is +EV. My range for V2 in this spot is all 53 combos of {KQ, QJ, J9,56ss-TJss, A5ss-AJss} + at most 1/3 of his 18 combos of {KT,TT,44} -- so close to 10% value combos.

In the end, based on my intuition that V2 couldn't be strong, I elected to shove. V1 tank-called and V2 insta-folded. When he saw my hand at showdown, V2 mildly berated me and told me he thought my play was -EV. I guess the answer would depend on how often he would elect to slow play his monsters, and I wasn't sure if my 1/3 figure above was reasonable or not.

Last edited by aisrael01; 08-22-2018 at 06:27 AM.
2/3 nl, TPTK turn decision, 300bb deep Quote
08-22-2018 , 08:29 AM
Oops, I miscounted. There are at most 12 combos of {KT,TT,44}, and likely at most 4 combos, in my estimation, given V2's action up to the turn. So his range is overwhelmingly draws and dominated pairs.
2/3 nl, TPTK turn decision, 300bb deep Quote
08-22-2018 , 03:37 PM
Agree with others that we should keep betting this turn. It clearly favors us in that it changes almost nothing.

We'd have a little over 1 pot to go if we check call here. Seems dumb against this player type. I'd rather pile and let him find a way to call off with a draw or a worse king. Plus I suspect V2 is on a draw as well so getting him out would be pretty good.

This is just an awkward stack size where all in seems like a bit of an overplay but 350 gives too many hands a good price (3.6:1 with an additional 480 behind yielding 5.74:1).

So smaller raise is easier to balance but misses value / fails to charge hands properly. All in is kind of an overplay. And obviously if we make it like 525 here, it's pretty clear we're just not folding for a few hundred more with any value hand, so our opponents get to play pretty perfect.

Also, if V2 is any good, he's a non-factor here. Calling with a set or top two on this kind of dynamic board where so many cards screw with his action on the river against a V1 player type is money hatred. So I don't see him showing up here w/ better than AK very often at all.

Last edited by jdr0317; 08-22-2018 at 03:48 PM.
2/3 nl, TPTK turn decision, 300bb deep Quote
08-22-2018 , 10:20 PM
Cbet size was way too big, 15-20 is fine. Turn check/fold is good, you have a 1 pair hand OOP against two players facing a large bet in a massively bloated pot. There's only one option.
2/3 nl, TPTK turn decision, 300bb deep Quote
08-23-2018 , 12:32 AM
Not sure what sort of games you play in, but 1/4 pot sized c-bet would be seen as very weak where I play. Also, I'm never check folding turn. V1 is only 130bb deep. We're supposed to be stacking off 130bb on a harmless looking board with TPTK. V1 has more combos of KQ,KJ than KT,TT,44 combined. Also, V2 overcalled twice, basic hand-reading pegs him on a weak hand. How can you be seriously advocating Check/Fold?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Loading....
Cbet size was way too big, 15-20 is fine. Turn check/fold is good, you have a 1 pair hand OOP against two players facing a large bet in a massively bloated pot. There's only one option.
2/3 nl, TPTK turn decision, 300bb deep Quote

      
m