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2/3 NL: T9o Sees cheap flop. 2/3 NL: T9o Sees cheap flop.

05-22-2013 , 01:55 AM
My main marks (loose, stationy) are pretty close on my right. Most everyone at the table is 100BB deep or more with a couple of exceptions. Pre flop play at this table really depends on where the button is. If the looser players are first to act, it usually ends up being a massive, cheap, multiway pot. I've been by far the tightest at the table, but have been trying to get involved in the cheap pots in late position like the hand you'll see here.

V1- $400 Older man (65+) who I have a really hard time reading. I don't know if he knows why/when to bet. Likes to show semi-bluffs, likes to represent and chase flushes.
V2- $250 Middle-aged fish who will call light pre regardless of player image. Slowplayed aces on a dumb board to slowplay aces. Otherwise really tries to hit flop hard w/ somewhat random hands.
Hero- $350

Villains are both to my right, preflop is limped around, I call in the CO with Ts9d. 6 handed to the flop.

Board: Q67dd ($15 pot)

Checked around to V1 who bets $20, V2 calls, Hero??? (3 left to act behind me)

Here are my thoughts:

1. Based on prior hands, V1's flop overbet tells me that he plans on firing turn (meaning 2p, Q, or monster draw)
2. A 3-way pot is not guaranteed w/ 3 left to act
3. Even though I'm in position, I'm only getting 3 outs for one street if I make the flop call unless V1's turn bet is too small.

fold>call?
2/3 NL: T9o Sees cheap flop. Quote
05-22-2013 , 02:10 AM
Fold.

10/9 off is almost a fold pre, but it's ok to play "stack a donk" on weak/passive tables where you can limp in/in position with hands like this.
2/3 NL: T9o Sees cheap flop. Quote
05-22-2013 , 02:36 AM
Calling here is ******ed. Don't go chasing bare gutterball draws just because stacks are a little deeper.
2/3 NL: T9o Sees cheap flop. Quote
05-22-2013 , 04:32 AM
100% fold

The real question is how could you possibly justify calling here? You could get raised and have just thrown away $20, someone could hit a flush, and a smart player will fold a Q to significant action if you do hit.
2/3 NL: T9o Sees cheap flop. Quote
05-22-2013 , 04:32 AM
You are a 16-1 dog to hit on the turn. You have to win $320 on average each time you hit and not get outdrawn on the river.

$320 is approximately your stack, so you need to stack someone every time just to not lose money.

Make these decisions quickly and ruthlessly. Never even contemplate a call here.
2/3 NL: T9o Sees cheap flop. Quote
05-22-2013 , 09:27 AM
EZ fold, you have 3 clean outs and the opponent overbet pot. Additionally, pot was limped so it is less likely you can stack deep opponent.

Pre - fold, unless on BTN and blinds look like they will not raise.
2/3 NL: T9o Sees cheap flop. Quote
05-22-2013 , 09:59 AM
Lol is this a real question?
2/3 NL: T9o Sees cheap flop. Quote
05-22-2013 , 10:48 AM
What?? Fold pre and snap fold now. Not only are you chasing a gutterball, you are chasing a dirty gutterball.
2/3 NL: T9o Sees cheap flop. Quote
05-22-2013 , 11:19 AM
Okay, so as is the hand is a no-brainer. I did fold at the time, but here is the question I was asking myself as I let the hand go:

How cheap would it have to be for me to call here?
2/3 NL: T9o Sees cheap flop. Quote
05-22-2013 , 11:22 AM
The larger issues is this. There's lots of good reasons to play connectors in LP for cheap. However, it isn't to try bluffing people off their hands. You're looking to connect with 2PR or better or a good draw. When you miss, you just c/f in a MW pot.
2/3 NL: T9o Sees cheap flop. Quote
05-22-2013 , 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rise4ndFire

How cheap would it have to be for me to call here?
It's okay to call gutshots to the nuts when the bet is both less than the pot and less than like 2% effective stacks. I can justify you calling a $7 bet here.
2/3 NL: T9o Sees cheap flop. Quote
05-22-2013 , 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
The larger issues is this. There's lots of good reasons to play connectors in LP for cheap. However, it isn't to try bluffing people off their hands. You're looking to connect with 2PR or better or a good draw. When you miss, you just c/f in a MW pot.
Sooooo this.

Look, even on an ugly board like that, this was a 6 handed pot. Someone probably has something by now.
2/3 NL: T9o Sees cheap flop. Quote
05-22-2013 , 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rumor
Sooooo this.

Look, even on an ugly board like that, this was a 6 handed pot. Someone probably has something by now.
Right, which makes the posted hand as it played out an easy fold. By itself, the hand isn't thread worthy. I don't want to waste anyone's time- the overall point was to see at what point ($ amt) would make sense to continue.

In a larger sense, as someone who is somewhat new to the live game, I've been surprised by the amount of times people have stacked off to obvious nut straight/flush situations. So I'm wondering how to calibrate my decisions as far as implied vs. immediate odds go.
2/3 NL: T9o Sees cheap flop. Quote
05-22-2013 , 02:15 PM
The problem is there is no magic right amount - it depends upon stacks, villain tendencies, # of villains who saw the flop, the board texture, your image, etc.
2/3 NL: T9o Sees cheap flop. Quote

      
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