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2/3 NL: KK cbet on AA7 flop? 2/3 NL: KK cbet on AA7 flop?

01-15-2014 , 03:41 AM
2/3 NL in local casino, buyin is $100-$300.

Villian: 20-30s Mixed male. Tight. He only played a few hands in last two hours. Never out of line. ~$250.

Hero: Tight, only played few hands due to card dead. ~$320

So on this hand, checked around. Villian was on SB and raised to $18. I was on BB with KK. I 3bet to $45. (I should 3bet more but did not want him to fold). All folded, Villian called.

Flop AA7

Villian Check, I cbet $60. Villian raised to $140, with $60 behind. I folded after tanked 2 mins.

I think I should not cbet on this flop. Only better hands will call me. Is it a mistake to cbet with KK on flop with two As? Should I check back on this flop? But if I checked, what's the plan on black turn and river?
2/3 NL: KK cbet on AA7 flop? Quote
01-15-2014 , 04:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aguo
2/3 NL in local casino, buyin is $100-$300.

Villian: 20-30s Mixed male. Tight. He only played a few hands in last two hours. Never out of line. ~$250.

Hero: Tight, only played few hands due to card dead. ~$320

So on this hand, checked around. Villain was on SB and raised to $18. I was on BB with KK. I 3bet to $45. (I should 3bet more but did not want him to fold). All folded, Villian called.

Flop AA7

Villian Check, I cbet $60. Villian raised to $140, with $60 behind. I folded after tanked 2 mins.

I think I should not cbet on this flop. Only better hands will call me. Is it a mistake to cbet with KK on flop with two As? Should I check back on this flop? But if I checked, what's the plan on black turn and river?
Check back on flop and go for check down if possible. Better is going to call or raise so just check it back. No FD or SD. Evaluate turn. You said he never gets out of line so I don't expect him to be way out of line a lot of the time when you reraise pre flop and he c/r all in on flop.

What does checked around pre flop mean?

Last edited by RyanAA44; 01-15-2014 at 04:49 AM. Reason: Forgot to ask...
2/3 NL: KK cbet on AA7 flop? Quote
01-15-2014 , 12:19 PM
Def check back on the flop.

Might call turn / river bets player depending.

Betting the flop doesn't really gain us much.
2/3 NL: KK cbet on AA7 flop? Quote
01-15-2014 , 12:33 PM
cbet was fine. Fold was also fine.

This is a pretty dry board, so you could probably afford to check the flop if you wanted to. You're only behind Ax (of which there aren't many available combos) and 77 (again, not a lot of these), so you're essentially allowing him a free shot at binking a boat if he's behind. If you think he'll suddenly think to start betting with his 88-QQ range OTT when you check, then I think it's fine also.

You run the risk of missing some value OTF, but I don't think it's a huge mistake.
2/3 NL: KK cbet on AA7 flop? Quote
01-15-2014 , 12:57 PM
i strongly prefer checking back this flop. betting doesnt really accomplish anything because i think a player like V will only continue with an A
2/3 NL: KK cbet on AA7 flop? Quote
01-15-2014 , 12:59 PM
I would have raised more preflop. This guy is tight and just raised out-of-the-blinds; he's not raising light, he's got a hand, and is very unlikely to fold to any reasonable 3bet. I want more money in there now just in case he can get away from JJ/TT/etc. on a A/K/Q high flop. I'd probably go $60ish.

I would probably check behind the flop. No better hand (i.e. Ax) is ever folding. And my guess is a worse hand (like QQ-) is unlikely to call off their stack, all the while drawing extremely thin (they are on a 2outer to overcome us).

After checking back the flop, I would call a reasonable donk bet on the turn. If checked to on the turn, I might just check back again; I think we might be pretty happy getting just one street of value here.

If donked into on the turn and river, I probably consider folding the river. If the flop/turn have both checked thru, I snap call a river donk, and make a river value bet myself if checked to.

As played, it seems a little strange that Ax would check/raise the flop since this has a good chance of blowing us off our hand. Plus they can easily play for stacks later, even if the turn checks thru. The other thing to consider is that since we have KK and there are 2 Aces on the flop, that really limits the number of AK combos that Villain could be raising preflop; does he really raise AQ preflop out-of-the-blinds? On the other hand, some people just play their hands extremely face up (big hand = check/raise!). Gross spot; if villain is capable of bluffing / doing weird stuff, I probably consider a call; otherwise, I might fold.

GcluelessNLnoobG
2/3 NL: KK cbet on AA7 flop? Quote
01-16-2014 , 03:25 AM
Thanks a lot. V did show his hand after I folded. He got AQ. So my flop cbet was a mistake I made. I like your plan better, I should check behind.

But this brings one question, if we were out of positon on this flop, and we checked, Villan bet 1/2 - 2/3 pot, what should we do? Is it a snap fold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
I would have raised more preflop. This guy is tight and just raised out-of-the-blinds; he's not raising light, he's got a hand, and is very unlikely to fold to any reasonable 3bet. I want more money in there now just in case he can get away from JJ/TT/etc. on a A/K/Q high flop. I'd probably go $60ish.

I would probably check behind the flop. No better hand (i.e. Ax) is ever folding. And my guess is a worse hand (like QQ-) is unlikely to call off their stack, all the while drawing extremely thin (they are on a 2outer to overcome us).

After checking back the flop, I would call a reasonable donk bet on the turn. If checked to on the turn, I might just check back again; I think we might be pretty happy getting just one street of value here.

If donked into on the turn and river, I probably consider folding the river. If the flop/turn have both checked thru, I snap call a river donk, and make a river value bet myself if checked to.

As played, it seems a little strange that Ax would check/raise the flop since this has a good chance of blowing us off our hand. Plus they can easily play for stacks later, even if the turn checks thru. The other thing to consider is that since we have KK and there are 2 Aces on the flop, that really limits the number of AK combos that Villain could be raising preflop; does he really raise AQ preflop out-of-the-blinds? On the other hand, some people just play their hands extremely face up (big hand = check/raise!). Gross spot; if villain is capable of bluffing / doing weird stuff, I probably consider a call; otherwise, I might fold.

GcluelessNLnoobG
2/3 NL: KK cbet on AA7 flop? Quote
01-16-2014 , 05:39 AM
Definitely a crappy spot in a 3-bet pot this shallow against basically face-up hand ranges.

To start check back flop. His range is basically JJ+/AK. We want to maximize against JJ/QQ and lose minimum to AK. I might even check back turn. If he fires river after two streets check through I prob call. If he checks thrice, I bet river small for value.
2/3 NL: KK cbet on AA7 flop? Quote
01-16-2014 , 06:13 AM
Check back flop because the only hand that V might call that's worse is QQ.
2/3 NL: KK cbet on AA7 flop? Quote

      
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