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Old 05-19-2015, 12:17 PM   #1
Daft_Punk
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2/3 Aria - Line check?

Been playing about an hour - viewed as competent (imo).

Lost with KK to KJ, and with AA to Q8 earlier (both vs the same short stacker [V] and both preflop), rebought and at 300. This particular V has quadrupled thru me and we arrive at this hand ^.

Hero opens A6dd to 16 in CO. V calls in SB and BB folds.

Flop 789 rainbow. V checks, Hero cbets 24 and V c/c's.

Turn A. V checks and Hero barrels 44 and V snap calls. Pot is 165-170.

River 10. V checks, and Hero bets 124.

Thoughts on this line?
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:04 PM   #2
djevans
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Re: 2/3 Aria - Line check?

pre flop is pretty bad and flop is super wet so i probably wouldn't bet with the low end of the straight draw - really accomplishes nothing but bloating a pot and you rarely get a fold vs a lot of his hands.

Turn bet is good

River bet is fine - folding to a shove
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:04 PM   #3
MangoBall
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Re: 2/3 Aria - Line check?

Preflop smaller, I'd bet a bit smaller on the river, given we want a call from 2p
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:16 PM   #4
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Re: 2/3 Aria - Line check?

Raising this hand pre is dependent on BTN image, and to a lesser extent the Blinds. If players yet to act are passive, I’m more likely to call pre. As played, my plan would be to play a small pot (post) and use position.

That said, I’d check back the flop and take a free turn. Betting may have some FE vs. small pps, nevertheless the opponent described may not know how to click fold.

I’d B/F the turn and thin value the river on a board where sets and 2-prs are clearly in the mix.
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:45 PM   #5
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Re: 2/3 Aria - Line check?

aria is 1/3
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:46 PM   #6
TensRUs
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Re: 2/3 Aria - Line check?

^
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Old 05-19-2015, 02:40 PM   #7
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Re: 2/3 Aria - Line check?

as for actual strat.

preflop is way too big.
flop is spew.
turn is okay.
river is okay.
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Old 05-19-2015, 02:56 PM   #8
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Re: 2/3 Aria - Line check?

Unless those behind us are extremely loose/bad, I also open preflop and look to win the pot outright or (preferably) get it HU with a blind so that I can take it down with a flop cbet.

I also cbet the flop. We can possibly fold out better hands (better Ax, small pairs), plus we do have some equity if called. I would bet smaller though to make it cheaper for us, probably just 1/2 PSB (there's no difference between this guy calling a 1/2 PSB and a 3/4 PSB, right?).

Against ABC poor players I'm ok with a value bet on the turn. We charge the draws and can easily fold to a raise, plus really bad players can still pay us off with worse hands. Against tricky or not as poor players or bluffy players, I would check behind on the turn. Even checking behind on the turn against poor players ain't horrendous as we would hate getting blown off our draw. I think I check here a lot more than bet, but this guy looks like a calling station, so he is the exception villain, imo.

On the river we don't have that much more than a PSB left behind. Once checked to, I would consider shoving for maximum value against 2 pair / etc. hands (such as T9/T8/T7) and perhaps some other strongish hands that played passively on the turn.

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Old 05-19-2015, 03:10 PM   #9
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Re: 2/3 Aria - Line check?

Grunch:

I guess flop Cbet is okay, I just feel villain has a lot of 7/8/9x in his range and given past hands is probably not folding. But I assume he's calling with lots of draws as well which you're ahead of and you do have the OESD (although not a very good one).

Turn is pretty awesome for us and pot is currently 85. I'd bet a little bigger than you did, probably like 55-60 or so, I think he's probably calling again pretty wide.

As played pot is 173 on river and you have the bottom end of the straight. I'd probably bet something like 30-50 for value and fold to a shove. Maybe he can level himself into calling with 2p etc, but for 124 I don't think you're getting much worse to call.
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Old 05-24-2015, 03:34 PM   #10
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Re: 2/3 Aria - Line check?

Yes, 1/3 - sorry about that* Been playing mostly in San Diego at 2/3 and just autopilot typed it - thanks for the correction.

I don't know if anyone really feels like you're inducing a bluff with a small river bet, and this isn't really a bluff shove that I want to induce because I am not snapping it off. I think a larger sized value bet/fold line is much stronger than a small one for this reason.

Further- How many Jx can we put in his range? the T is one of the best cards we can see because it reduces his combinations of JT (and therefore JX), and any decent showdown hands with draws like 7T 8T 9T AT river a good two pair. Its a tough hero call with just 2p (I guess you can include sets but they're basically the same hand at this point imo) but V has shown his capability to call off big bets (relative to his stack size) with questionable hands.
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Old 05-24-2015, 03:55 PM   #11
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Re: 2/3 Aria - Line check?

Pre flop sizing is fine. Anything from 12-18 is good. You have a player in the sb that has shown he will call with far inferior hands. You are far ahead of his defending range and you have position. This is recipe for making money. Flop I would bet smaller, around 20 as I expect him to call most flop bets with overs, draws, and any piece of the flop based on this type of player. Turn I would bet about 60-65% pot. He is still likely calling with any piece and any draw. I would want to keep him in. On river I like betting smaller 45-50% of pot to get the curious call. These V's will level themselves into justifying a call with any pair as they hate to fold if they think their "pot odds" are good. I would fold to a check raise as this type of player rarely bets aggressive - they just call loose (unless you have seen contrary aggressive play). I think a big river bet folds too many hands. Overall I believe you played hand fine except river sizing folds out too many hands. Even stations can find some folds.
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Old 05-24-2015, 03:58 PM   #12
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Re: 2/3 Aria - Line check?

Grunch

Ugg. Why are we raising so much pre?

I like the flop bet. If you bet 3/4pot with your overpairs sizing is nice. I think your fold equity is watt higher than with 1/2 pot or less.

Turn is OK. Would suck to get raised here though.

I like river though possibly 1/2 pot or less gets more value. I'd bet a little under $100.

This hand would be so much better with reads.
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Old 05-24-2015, 04:07 PM   #13
tmacTheorySSAnne
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Re: 2/3 Aria - Line check?

imo pre is fine, why wouldnt we want to iso bad players w axs hands? well at least online we want to raise to like 25$ here w axs to iso any fish in the blinds that will call. am i crazy. flop we are betting for value to gii by riv if we hit

EDIT: no reason to get crazy with axs but vs fish its $ at least online
we also have to be careful that we dont mix the two ranges: pre vs post calling ranges.. this guy can easily be drawing to the j hih str8

Last edited by tmacTheorySSAnne; 05-24-2015 at 04:11 PM. Reason: ranges
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Old 05-24-2015, 04:24 PM   #14
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Re: 2/3 Aria - Line check?

Quote:
Originally Posted by universalpeace View Post
imo pre is fine, why wouldnt we want to iso bad players w axs hands? well at least online we want to raise to like 25$ here w axs to iso any fish in the blinds that will call. am i crazy. flop we are betting for value to gii by riv if we hit

EDIT: no reason to get crazy with axs but vs fish its $ at least online
we also have to be careful that we dont mix the two ranges: pre vs post calling ranges.. this guy can easily be drawing to the j hih str8
Touche.

I was thinking $1/2.
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Old 05-24-2015, 04:33 PM   #15
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Re: 2/3 Aria - Line check?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
Against ABC poor players I'm ok with a value bet on the turn. We charge the draws and can easily fold to a raise, plus really bad players can still pay us off with worse hands. Against tricky or not as poor players or bluffy players, I would check behind on the turn. Even checking behind on the turn against poor players ain't horrendous as we would hate getting blown off our draw. I think I check here a lot more than bet, but this guy looks like a calling station, so he is the exception villain, imo.
GcluelessNLnoobG
Nice analysis! If we think we are only getting raised by two pair or better this is a bet?
How does our line change against various opponents OOP?
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Old 05-24-2015, 04:39 PM   #16
tmacTheorySSAnne
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Re: 2/3 Aria - Line check?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kookiemonster View Post
Nice analysis! If we think we are only getting raised by two pair or better this is a bet?
How does our line change against various opponents OOP?
no, if we think we'll get raised by 2p hands he was saying it might even be
better to check in a situation, not to get blown off our drawing hand
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Old 05-24-2015, 05:07 PM   #17
85chickasaw
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Re: 2/3 Aria - Line check?

grunch: played it fine

c bet heads up in position is rarely bad.. villain dependent though but i'd probably stab.

turn you have top pair... bet it

river you have bottom flush... bet it (i probably would have shoved though)

i think you played it reasonably.
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Old 05-24-2015, 07:26 PM   #18
85chickasaw
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Re: 2/3 Aria - Line check?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 85chickasaw View Post
grunch: played it fine

c bet heads up in position is rarely bad.. villain dependent though but i'd probably stab.

turn you have top pair... bet it

river you have bottom flush... bet it (i probably would have shoved though)

i think you played it reasonably.
meant bottom straight. but you get it.
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