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2/3 A4s what to do in these spots? (noob questions :X) 2/3 A4s what to do in these spots? (noob questions :X)

05-08-2010 , 04:51 AM
Well im on a standard table where the whole table likes to limp etc, not much raising going on except for one guy two to the left of me, and even that is rare.
I have a stack of about $250, and probably cover most of the table (max buyin is $200).

I pick up A4 spades on the button, and there was probably 5 limpers before me. Do I limp along here too?

Anyway, I do, and the big blind decides to raise to $28 total, and all the limpers. Do I call here just hoping to hit a flush? I'm not exactly sure what im hoping for on the flop - two pair, a flush..

Anyway, I call and the flop runs out A85 rainbow, the big blind bets $80, and I quickly fold. Also, what if he had bet something smaller like $40? Call?
2/3 A4s what to do in these spots? (noob questions :X) Quote
05-08-2010 , 06:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhenzhenZHEN
Well im on a standard table where the whole table likes to limp etc, not much raising going on except for one guy two to the left of me, and even that is rare.
I have a stack of about $250, and probably cover most of the table (max buyin is $200).

I pick up A4 spades on the button, and there was probably 5 limpers before me. Do I limp along here too?

Anyway, I do, and the big blind decides to raise to $28 total, and all the limpers. Do I call here just hoping to hit a flush? I'm not exactly sure what im hoping for on the flop - two pair, a flush..

Anyway, I call and the flop runs out A85 rainbow, the big blind bets $80, and I quickly fold. Also, what if he had bet something smaller like $40? Call?
If the table plays really badly, a raise is possible. But never fold. This is one of the most profitable situations in the game. You are priced in to call the BB raise as well.

And yeah, you are not looking to hit an Ace, but some sort of big draw.

The fold is perfect, don't even think twice. If he bets $40 into a 175$ pot and its folded to me, I will likely raise... but shut it down if i get called.
2/3 A4s what to do in these spots? (noob questions :X) Quote
05-08-2010 , 10:40 AM
I'd invoke the "5%-10% rule" here and fold a speculative hand for a raise that is 10% of my stack. True, you have position and there is a good immediate price but as you see you don't feel comfortable putting your stack in with an ace, and stack decisions will arrive quickly on the flop or turn. Usually someone else also has an ace and your kicker is worthless.
exercise: How often do you make two pair, trips, straight, flush, full house or a flush draw?
2/3 A4s what to do in these spots? (noob questions :X) Quote
05-08-2010 , 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhenzhenZHEN
I pick up A4 spades on the button, and there was probably 5 limpers before me. Do I limp along here too?
I mix it up here depending on my image, the limpers tendencies and the game dynamics.

If the dynamic is currently limp, fit or fold post flop I am raising a lot of hands OTB, but I am not doing it so much as to tell everyone that I am just making a position raise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zhenzhenZHEN
Anyway, I do, and the big blind decides to raise to $28 total, and all the limpers. Do I call here just hoping to hit a flush? I'm not exactly sure what im hoping for on the flop - two pair, a flush..
Ya call you are getting like 6:1 and if you hit your flush or two pair you are likely in good shape.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zhenzhenZHEN
Anyway, I call and the flop runs out A85 rainbow, the big blind bets $80, and I quickly fold. Also, what if he had bet something smaller like $40? Call?
You can not be calling naked aces for the odds and then get married to it post flop. If the villain made a small bet, and I was last to act making it a HU pot I might raise/call depending on the player tendencies and my read on the villain.
2/3 A4s what to do in these spots? (noob questions :X) Quote
05-08-2010 , 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Percula
Ya call you are getting like 6:1 and if you hit your flush or two pair you are likely in good shape.
I'm on the fence about this one. I need to be convinced that a good flop appears often enough for us to pay 10% of stack.
"good" outcomes (you win the pot+probably more):
flush: ~1% (probably not going to stack someone without them having a smaller flush or pair+fd or set)
trip 4s: ~1.5% (potential to stack an overpair)
two pair: 2% (potential to get counterfeited)
straight (2,3,5): <1% (fairly negligible)

"decent" outcomes:
trip As: ~1.5% (not getting much action and if we do that could be a bad sign)
flush draw: 11% (can put in money with 35-50% equity; has limited FE due to pot size)
top pair: ~13% (could be trouble...could earn or lose 1/3 stack)
2/3 A4s what to do in these spots? (noob questions :X) Quote
05-08-2010 , 11:28 PM
Sorry guys, im still confused..on one hand im getting 6:1 on my call, on the other hand im putting in >10% of my stack with a hand i know to be very likely dominated..so what to do :S
2/3 A4s what to do in these spots? (noob questions :X) Quote
05-08-2010 , 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhenzhenZHEN
Sorry guys, im still confused..on one hand im getting 6:1 on my call, on the other hand im putting in >10% of my stack with a hand i know to be very likely dominated..so what to do :S
What do you think about each of those arguments?

For certain types of flops, what is likely to happen under the given table conditions?

Ask yourself where the money comes from (or goes) in playing this hand. Here are some questions we may try to answer:

1. If I flop good do I get paid off? (How much? how often?) That is, what are the implied odds?

2. How often do I get trapped with a second-best hand?

3. How often do I get stuck putting in money with a drawing hand because the odds continue to be attractive?

4. How much fold/steal equity will I have postflop?

5. Will playing/showing down this hand help my image and cause my opponents to make mistakes in future hands?
2/3 A4s what to do in these spots? (noob questions :X) Quote
05-09-2010 , 02:06 AM
Tricky spot. Here's my take.
A4s is a speculative hand as stated. It should be played as such. That is,get in cheap and flop big. OTB for 1BB is cheap,paying$25 more is not.

With these stack sizes(less than $250,u have everyone covered)calling that pfr is not profitable. The most likely outcome is you whiff completely(pfr$$ gone). Next is you catch a small piece,which all posters agree is not enough to continue(pfr$$ gone).

Last are the flops you really hit. You can never make the nut straight. If you flop a flush,it's very obv.(everyone is "a little afraid" of the flush)
2 pair can be 2nd best on flop or certainly get run down by the river.(hard for you to have top 2)
Trips are nice but could be a cooler if someone makes a full house.
The most likely "hit" hand is a draw. Flush draw,pair and FD,pair and str8 draw,etc. Now,with the larger pot$165approx,cbets are going to be in the 80-150 range. I personally don't like that spot.

I guess what I'm trying to say is:we have to play fit or fold postflop. Doesn't that negate a huge aspect of profitability when playing the button? I at least want the option to possibly outplay someone postflop when OTB. Not solely relying on the cards,hoping to hit a longshot big hand,while also hoping it's not 2nd best.

With stated stack sizes,I think it's a clear limp pre.(although an occ.balancing pfr is good)When the dealer asks you for $25 more,give him your cards.(close your eyes on the flop if you need to)
2/3 A4s what to do in these spots? (noob questions :X) Quote

      
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