2-3-5 ds plays like 5-10

Hero tag $3200
V1 loosish asian tag covers
Likes to play alot of speculative hands pre, and limps somewhat wide pre. Will sometimes slowplay monsters. Average but not good/great
V2 asian lady loose $800
Same as v1 but even worse fundamentals

Folds to hero in HJ who raises 88 to $25
Co calls
V1 sb calls
V2 bb calls

Flop $100
875 rainbow
V1 leads $35
V2 flats
Hero raises to $175
Co folds
V1 flats $175
V2 jams all in $775 ($600 more to hero)

If hero calls, he will have exactly $2400 back, and the pot will be $1800. However, in the unlikely event v1 is slowplaying a straight, when it comes back to him he will probably jam. If he does, the pot will be:
$1800+$600 (v1's call) + v1s shove for my remaining stack of $2400.

In that scenario, hero would be getting exactly 2:1 on a call, and would have to call with top set. If that is the case, wouldnt it be better for hero to just reraise and jam on v1?

Basically my question is what does hero do after v2 shoves all in? It seems really stupid to just cram $3000 into v1, when he will only call with the nuts, but if v1 is slowplaying a straight, we wont be able to fold if he jams anyways.

I guess calling could induce him to flat with worse as well. But that board is so wet if a bad turn comes off i might have to check fold which would be sooo gross

Otoh jamming has the slight advantage of possibly forcing v1 to fold a lower straight, and allowing us to get it in good vs v2 if he has a lower set.

Since you don't plan on folding flop (which I agree with), you shouldn't really be folding the turn either with all the money out there and equity you have in the pot. V1 will have a ton of worse hands here that will fold to your jam, so I'd much rather flat the flop to get more money in there.

Don't think V1 is ever folding a straight here, since you have few straights in your range.

In this type of situation it is better to concern yourself with the bottom of villain's range. You are screwed against straights: Okay fine. Now how do we get the most value from 77? Against most people, we do this by calling.

Call/Call.

lol

Whats so funny


Btw the situation does become a bit more complicated because v2 has a ton of combos of two pairs and lower sets, which all slash into our equity

Also what are you guys doing with middle set here? How about bottom set or bottom straight?

Yes. I hate when my top set runs into lower sets and 2 pair. Really ****s with my winrate.

Obv you dont realize that v2 having two pair or sets is very bad for us if v1 has a straight

And why do my posts keep getting moved from mhnl to llsnl, clearly if i felt i needed advice from llsnl i would post there. its quite obvious that with the size of the pots in question, im not playing low stakes. 2-3-5 deepstack in my locale is the second highest level next to 10-25, with average stacks from 1,000-2000 or more. Its basically 5-10

Yes you are right.
Calling is superior to raising, to keep the lower portion of v1s range in.

Think i posted this hand cuz of a little bit of frustration, because i did just that and called.
V1 jammed, i tank called.
V1 had 96
V2 had a set

They offered to run it twice, but i said once only. (I was under the impression running it twice in multiway pots with a side pot changed the equity, but i was wrong)
Brick brick

I think you played it fine, I am just never folding top set otf here.

The important takeaway is that a backraise-4bet jam is always the nuts in a single-raise pot. Also you don't need to run too many cominatorics to know that there are exactly 2 of immediate 7 board pairing outs dead, ie. 2pair/sets held by V2 are equivalent. So you're getting about 2-1 on about 22% equity.

Seems gross, but if ever there was a time to fold top set, it's now. This actually reads more like a PLO spot imo, very interesting.

What if flop texture were 876 two-tone? 987 monotone? T87r?

Point is that this is one of the dryer board textures one could hope for with top set, which lends V1's line much more credence as nutted.

Went thru my head, but not necesarily true, because there are 2 different straights on that flop, and so there are 32 total combinations of straight draws.
My point being, v2 could easily have 64, which improves my equity as opposed to him only having sets/twopairs


I actually stoved my equity vs
V1 having all sets and all straights
V2 having all sets and all straights

Each player has 33% equity in that scenario.
So its still a call

If we knew for a fact v2 only did this with sets and two pairs, then yes we should fold, but v2 could also have the remaining full combos of straights



What makes this spot far more interesting is if we had bottom set or bottom straight. According to stove, we would actually prefer bottom set over bottom straight.

Was this at Bay 101 last night? I think I heard the table reaction after this hand went down...

I would guess m8trix since I saw OP there last night playing deepstack.

It would obv be a little easier to justify a fold if the board was more coordinated.

thanks for posting. sick cooler

Duuuuude you are a San Jo native? I remember you from my SSNL days... A long timeeeee ago

No, even though you are not folding you should not narrow vils range by jamming.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using 2+2 Forums

Sick. I think it's really hard to get away from this with top set on a rainbow flop.

That said, one -- if not both -- of the two villains have at least the straight draw. But 96 makes me want to puke.

My thoughts. I would absolutely *not* jam after V2 jams. V1 is not calling for ~3000 with anything but the nuts. So you call.

You have $2400 behind in a pot of $2400.

I absolutely hate this spot though.

Given how deep it is, I think you call. This deep, if V1 jams I think this is maybe a puke-fold unless these players are totally incompetent. That said I don't think I could make the fold.

I'm curious how people would play the turn had V1 called instead of jammed and a brick came down.

Every option kinda seems to suck. V1 checks, if you check you let a guy draw to a hand that kills you. Seems awful. But betting is obviously pot-committing so a bet fold is pretty terrible. A half size bet leaves 1200 behind, meaning it's another 1200 to win like 6000 if he shoves. V1 bets you're getting sick odds for a huge pot with top set. Yuck.

Given stack sizes and pot size I think when you call V2's shove you must now absolutely have to be willing to get it in in every scenario EXCEPT if V2 calls and a 6 or 9 or 4 comes down. So if you're not willing to do that given your reads, maybe it's a fold.

But folding to a short-stack shove with top set is just insane.

Sick spot. Sorry.

ya it is top set but only have 3rd nuts and we are 600bb deep pretty sure this is a fold.

calling is the 3bet on flop is bad but it's not super bad. cramming is the worst of the 3 options.