Hopefully this is a simple thread, but I've been thinking about this hand for a couple of days now and wanted to get thoughts from the the community.

My work takes me to San Jose on a fairly regular basis, and I like to play the deep stack game when scheduling allows. It's been maybe 3 months since I've played, and we've been 3-4 handed for about an hour. I've got a stack of about 3k.

New guy joins the table and buys in for the max of $1500. We lose a player about 10 minutes later, and are down to 3 handed. It's about 10p on Thursday evening, and the new guy looks like a businessman who's just finished up a dinner. Dressed in slacks and a business shirt, fairly quiet, and seems to quickly adjust to table dynamics. After about 40 minutes at the table, he's built up to $1700 only going to SD once, vs me, and shows up with J9 on an A99xx board.

On to the hand. V is OTB and opens to $35, SB folds. Hero looks down at KK, 3! $120. Villain thinks for maybe 10 seconds, 4! $320. Hero 5! $540.

Villain goes into the tank for a good minute, looking at his cards 2 or 3 times. Announces AI.

The only thing that really has me questioning here is the stack sizes and villain reads. I don't think this is a LOL KK PRE JUST CALL scenario.

Am I overthinking? Given my limited exposure with this V, is this still a standard call, or is this a meh fold when calling off an additional 200BB+?

Or was it a mistake to 5! in the first place?

You're going to get alot of weird answers on this one but main questions...are you still 3 handed and what were the 3betting frequencies between all of you at the table?

In a nutshell stacking off here isn't ever going to be a mistake but there are a few particulars about live poker that most don't realize (such as a 6th bet being exclusively AA from any non-whale)

I think your sizing is good and no the 5! was not a mistake. Also realize that with a $35 open (I'm assuming this was standard sizing) you guys aren't that deep.

I actually saw a 6bet - snap call the other day between the button and small blind at a 10 handed table in a button vs blinds battle. Button has A9o and sb had ATo. It was only for 400 but this hand was contested between two players who have the capability of spewing but aren't necessarily whales. I have a lot of confidence in calling here.

Either way is good

Yeah we're still 3 handed. 3! wasn't out of line for this V, and he had taken down a couple of pots with decent 3s into $15 b/c when in position. Nothing out of line...just standard tag play, and he seemed to be very comfortable adjusting to short handed play (a lot of FR guys will play too tight). So I may have been reading too much into this V, but he seemed pretty decent.

The open wasn't standard for the table...that was 15-20 at this point. V wasn't static in his sizing, but this was his biggest open. It felt like he was still feeling out a decent iso range.

And how do you think villain perceives you?

At this point, probably mostly TAG...with laggy tendencies.

Meh, I'm calling and then asking how times V wants to run it (provided that type of thing is allowed where you're playing).

Looking at the maths, I'd have to call $1380 to win $2240, so I need to be good 61% of the time to be good here.

I range V to 12 combos of AA, 8 combos of AK, one combo of KK, and I think 12 combos of QQ covers all smaller pairs and trash. I'm kinda struggling to keep his 6! shoving range that wide, and even that only gets me to 57%, meaning I'm loosing $90 calling here. If I can widen to include JJ, I'm winning $22.

Am I missing anything?

Your math is very wrong. 1380 to win 2240, you need 38% equity.

AA has only 6 combo, so is QQ. Now do the math again and if he shoves KK+ and AK, it is a trivial call.

The reality might be V always shove KK + here. That is debatable

Lol...f me I'm an idiot. Not sure what was in my head there with the 12 combos....I think I was stuck on 12 of AA and QQ or something. So thanks for that correction. Anyways, I stoved the range, so at least that part of it is correct.

Am I wrong on the equity % though? 1380 is 61.6% of 2240, so let's call it 62%?

But then I realized I didn't calculate my 5! into the call, so I actually only need to call $1160. That means I need to be good 52%, in which case I still have to keep QQ/AK in his range to profit $112. Remove AK and I lose $45. Keep AK but remove QQ, and I lose $112

I share your concern that the reality is always KK+ here, which means I'm about a 3:1 dog. I guess it is debatable, but with the info I have so far, do I really have the justification to think this guy 6bet shoves wide enough to make this profitable?

First of all, there's no 5b folding KK 3handed so just 5-call and see what happens.

Second of all, guy in suit makes his largest open by a mile, then 4bets, then Hollywood tank 6 bets without a full subrange of AK available?.... should be nuts, but once you 5b it is what it is.

Agree w/ Avarita. If there was no other info besides what you provided in op, I think anything but folding would be a mistake.

While the 3! dynamic is important, if there is no 4! dynamic, even given the 3! dynamic you are alluding in your other post + Villains sizing tell I still think doing anything but folding is a mistake. A 3! dynamic vs 3x opens is almost meaningless, even if you have been 3! villains 3x opens and its actually deceiving when v decides to make it 7x pre out of nowhere and then 4! your large 3!.

As played if you are stacking off here i would expect v to have AA often. I would fold to the 4!>flat the 4!lollivereads>5!

This is all based off my experience in FR games. Shorthanded without being there it is very hard to say. Folding KK shorthanded like this may sound awful but his huge sizing is too hard to ignore. if v made it 15 and you guys got into a 3! war I would be more inclined to agree with flatting his 4! and looking to c/r gii. I dont think I would be able to forgive myself for not going with my instincts as far as villains preflop sizing since its so blatant.

Still in the fold to the 4!> flat the 4! and look to c/r gii> 5! after thinking about it some more. Too read dependent though, I wish you had some of your specific 3! history. W/o it I think I am folding

w/o a 4! dynamic + v's sizing I dont believe so

Commenting on the math here... Calling $1160 to win $2240 means you are getting 1.9:1 odds. You only need to win 34.4% to break even here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Damn i missed a lot of specifics in this thread. My advice is doo doo. Not folding since your laggy but I dont think I am 5!. I would flat the 4! and look to c/shove.

I think Imma call the 4 bet, mostly.

I think you played it fine

Thanks for the feedback. I called and V showed up with. AA. I flopped a set to take it down, but couldn't shake the feeling I was making a big mistake at 340BB deep. Good to know my thinking in game wasn't out of line.

ran it once? I would've called and definitely asked to run it 3 times. never played in games this big/deep, but would imagine I would want to run it multiple times in these spots.

Prob best to flat the 4b and proceed cautiously post. AP, fold to 6b+hollywood, guy isn't sitting down and shipping in $1.7k w/o AA.

Generally, I'm never going past a 4! over 300BB deep without AA. You shouldn't apply 100BB strategy to deepstack poker. I'd make a smaller 3!, call the 4!, and see a flop. If you 3! to $90 and he 4! to $200, you have plenty of room to maneuver postflop.

3! and 4! preflop 100BB with premiums reduces the SPR to setup flop shoves, reduces IO, and maximizes value when you're ahead. None of these advantages apply deepstacked.