Hero just sat down with $400 at this 2/3/5 game.. Friday night

7-handed

Three limps UTG ($300-400 stacks), Hero raises to $35 in CO with 8c8d, SB ($450) and two limpers call

Flop ($150): Qc Tc 4s
Checks to H, H checks

Turn ($150): 6d
SB checks, UTG bets $20, UTG2 calls, H ??

I feel like I play these spots really weak. Can we consider raising here? Or cbetting flop?

I raise stupid bets like this all the time, but not in this situation. The pot is already too big to try to bluff raise. Just fold and hope they showdown so you can use the info for next time.

Id just limp along preflop too.

Edit...the more I think about this the more I want to raise to $150. If I had a tight winning image at that point Id stick the raise in.

Without knowing anything about villains I generally avoid getting creative in these situations. Against the right opponent it's a good play but you have no idea yet.

The problem is having some idea what UTG's range is. Is he doing this with QX? TX Draws? And with those hands does he call a raise? Does he have two pair+ that is trying to nurse some money into the pot? Against a fish who is throwing in a probing bet with lots of weak hands to see if anybody else is interested in the pot then raising is great, against a station that always has Tx+ and won't give up it's terrible.

But I’m also kind of afraid if they realize that I only rep 66 by raising the turn, because I wouldn’t check back any value hand OTF... but I don’t know if they’re thinking on that level..

I treat them similar to how I would treat a check. For instance, if I was planning to bet 40% of my range and check back 60% when checked to, then facing a minibet like this, I'd raise it with a little under 40% of my range, and call with a little under 60%, folding only my worst hands.

In this particular instance, I would call with your hand, and raise my Tx hands that I was gonna bet when checked to.

You should only be able to do this (selectively) against villains that have a fold button. On this board we'll probably get called by a lot of draws or sticky top pair type hands (KQ, QJ, Q9 etc). W/o reads we shouldn't get creative

Consider a board like: AQ56r. We can x-raise on flop or c-bet flop and x/r turn when we miss here with 88. As villain grunch-folds he'll say "AK or AQ right?" ... and to which we will nod... "nice hand well played" ... "thanks man"

A large percentage of low stakes players would check QQ/TT on that flop (as the preflop raiser)

They aren't. Maybe the few winning regs but they don't get like this.

It's important to categorize the villain correctly. Some OMCs and super nits will make tiny bets with nut hands. Vs. these guys just give up. Vs. the probe bet types I like a raise but at least call here. You're getting like 9.5:1 and if other guy calls better. Almost good enough to draw to your set if you can win a small bet when you hit.

And if these guys are betting 20 with draws you may have the best hand anyway.

Overlimp pre. Stacks are short and 88 doesn't play great on many boards. Another problem we are seeing right now is that you can't reasonably rep anything. If you overlimp it allows you to rep a much wider range of hands including weird 2 pair hands and sets.

Maybe very inexperienced players at 1/2 but in the 2/5 games I play in with absolutely TERRIBLE players nobody is checking back QQ or TT on that board. NOBODY.

Come visit the nit fest better known as the Isle. You'll see it a lot, especially if there's a high hand promo. At 1/2, its a given they're checking a set. At 2/5 it still happens a lot. Ive seen set over set get checked to the river a few times. More in limped pots, but still it happens in raised pots too.

The biggest thing about this hand is that you gave us no reads on the villain at all. I don't know if the villain is a 85 year old man or a 21 year old Asian kid. You've been at this too long to not have any reads. That's the biggest leak in this hand by far. You aren't going to get much further in your game until you start observing your villains at all.

I think I almost always lose if I call here considering them as checks.

Raise 72 check decide river

I've seen fish smallbet like this plenty of times, usually with draws and weak pairs. Sometimes (on other boards) they do it with a flopped straight or something which is crazy but they'll do it anyway. I wouldn't raise in this spot since I have lots of other hands in my range that would. If you raise this hand I feel like you're raising way too often.

OP you should be more concerned with how you play your range in this spot not the specific holding. It's only weak if you aren't raising thin enough for value with the part of your range that checks back flop. Think about what range you have and how you play everything then sort hands according to what frequency you think is optimal.

That's OK. You can lose 90% and call is still +EV.

You probably won't lose that often though. ~4.5% you'll hit a set, and other times they will both be on draws or have pairs worse than yours.

Age/race really doesn't have that much effect on a play style or in formulating a good read as you think it does. Especially when hero lol-just-sat-down.

Wat?! When did this change?

It's most relevant when hero just sits down and has no other reads on his opponents.

yeah I don't agree with that either. Does it make up the bulk of my decision making, no. But to say it doesn't matter at all
is a little off imo.

Bet the flop IMO. Need to continue the story if you want any chance of winning this without improving.

AP, I mean calling is AIDS for sure, so it is either fold or raise. Knowing me, I likely raise as you can rep a delayed c-bet with a huge hand (Like AQ+, TT+).