When I go to the casino most players are just clueless. I really think I have an edge on all the players at my table. Is this how most of you guys think or is it just me?

Too general a question? When I sit down (and before I even get to my seat...and for a long time afterwards....you get the point) I'm scoping out the players and the stacks at the table and using everything I can to figure out Who exactly I have an edge over, who I might not, why I might not against a certain player, etc, etc etc...

I think if you are just sitting down and assuming you're the best player at the table, at any table, you ought to have a pretty sick track record to back that up..

Oh and to add, I am only very new to 2+2 (lol look, my 31st post!) but I have been playing poker at least casually for 6+ years, have read many books, and have been a participant in other forums in the past... so if I have an edge its from all of those combined factors, but I think its just bloody dangerous to sit down and assume you're the "best" player everywhere you go.

Well we are talking about LLSNL. Most of the good players will refuse to play high rake games. So why would I have to have a good track record to think that.

There are some 2p2 in the LLSNL that are fish. I don't think I'm that good of a player and I am amazed at some of the posts. But I think that this is a great place to learn about the live games and there are some really interesting hands as well.

Well I have been a long time lurker for 2 years. Been playing for 2 and a half years. I was just clearly stating I know I have an edge. I play 1-300 buyin 2/5 where everyhand is limped. The live games are full of donks who sit and wait for cooler situations.

This sounds like always_tilting, and other posters in this forum 'i will play poker properly il just wait for a set and cooler people, all in pre flop with AK? i only have A high!! bleh, thats for donks.'

This thinking 'that 2+2 is Your Edge When You Sit Down At LLSNL' is the problem and why i and some other posters *cough*you know im talking about you*cough* consider this place a fishtank.

'i know about 2p2 everyone else is a donk/fish etc' when you really dont have an edge at all, you know nothing more about poker and the only thing separating you and them is that you know the tank exists but you dont think you are in it. You do not know and have a good grasp of the fundamentals but you know terms like fold equity and other key concepts and advanced concepts like balancing and maybe even range merging but you dont know that when they really mean and you dont know how to use it and after all of it you still do not know that when you bet you are betting to get called by worse or to make better fold.

Knowing these things and applying them misappropriately is probably more dangerous than not knowing them at all.

2p2 is a great place to find the information to make you a great player, reading NVG, BBV, OOT, etc. and being like 'lol donkaments' doesnt make you a pro, reading each and every one of the COTW's then going and hitting the tables and trying to use these concepts will give you an edge.

Its info+experience+learning ability.

Failure to actually absorb the information is actually more prevalent than you think. Now im willing to admit iv been playing poker for about 3 years, lurking 2p2 for 2 years and only in the last probably 4-5 months since i actually turned pro and put in 100% of my effort have i become a good (id like to think great) poker player. This unfortunately was due to lack of experience, i never had the patience to put in the volume online to improve my game.

However this was all dwarfed by another catalyst, i dont know why, i dont know how, but i made a friend and as soon as he decribed 1 or 2 of his poker thoughts i really grew, like almost overnight the way i saw the game changed entirely and i went from a 'live donk' who made money just being better than the fish, to actually being a good poker player. My biggest thanks to him (hes a contributer here too and he will read this probably) The only obstacles in my way now is time, effort and a bankroll (sick downswing coupled with huge life expenses recently crippled me severely) but its happening, im building back up, thankfully im really quite lucky to learn this at such a young age and to be bright enough, creative enough and perceptive enough to maximise its potential.

Lastly posting in this forum has helped me a lot, teaching is the best way to learn they say. This is why a poker friend is so crucial to poker success, look at all the high stakes players, they generally belong to a group of friends (Durrrr and Galfond, Bonomo and Haxton and their crew to the Hendon mob, and the Mayfair club of old) they grew together and taught and learnt from eachother, LLSNL, 2p2 etc is all trying to make a poker circle that shares and learns and is good for everyone involved, this is why it makes me so angry when people post just the absolute WRONG thing, when its just awful, its offensive for me to read it, not because YOU are awful but you are trying to influence people to your awful way of thinking, its not bad for you, its bad for the community.

i have had moments where iv thought '**** LLNSL, **** the community, theyre just a bunch of fish, why would i tap the tank? why would i teach them what i know? Dont i want the games to be soft?' Nah, cos i know its all good and ok because in reality im a good guy and what matters is that im smarter than you, il always be a level ahead of you. The best poker experience is vsing someone of seemingly equal ability and beating them, outthinking them, leveling them, its the greatest feeling.

Im a sucker for competition and i would rather vs someone and then overcome them than vs a fish, this is because i want to be the best in the world, i want to learn, this isnt about making money, its about winning, crushing and the money is the score. Whoever has the most money is the winner in poker. Fortunately poker isnt everything

Lol, where did that come from? That was a stream of conciousness post if ever i wrote one, been awake for ~44 hours so i guess i have an excuse... lol.

Tl: Dr

It is not your edge.

You find out a little about me and why im good at the pokers and why others are too. Also you find out why others are bad at the pokers.

Well I think your going way and beyond my post. I love 2+2 this site has taught me how to play poker. Watch poker and all the lingo formulas. Its good to know all the information on the game. Now that I know what EV is and how to apply that to the tables at the casino. Every situation I get now when I'm at the table is just a math problem. Play super aggro when get played back adjust accordingly and always make the best EV play.


"Confidence is one of the keys to success"

being up for 44 hrs kind of takes the edge off your posts... the kinder, gentler Marlol

i'd venture to say the majority of players believe this. if you (they) can quantify your edge, you likely have one; if you can't you probably don't.

I'm guessing that every single player who sits down at a poker table thinks they are one of the best players at the table.

I think it's helping me analyze my mistakes better and then apply that to similar hands. I'm finding my hand ranging is becoming more accurate as well since reading threads here. I am not a pro but I consider myself a thinking player and I've learned to ask myself what my vill would be thinking instead of what I believe is going on in his head. That plus application of proper bet sizing to maximize my profit in pots I have one of these fish one the hook (value betting rivers). Overall this 2+2 is increasing my poker iq which is transferring to he felt. Occasionally a light bulb goes on at the table and I can usually trace it back to something I have studied here. Peace.

I think you're FOS personally. Most of your ramblings are about being a 'great player' and berating people who are trying to learn the game, rather than actual strategy.

+1 to this, I'm like John cina I can't even see the trolling lmao.

I thought my edge was that half the table has a pigmy understanding of big bet poker?

Once you get aggro confidence and know how to control pots by betting and not checking. You will see a (so called) good player has many edges in a poker game. Especially LLSNL

Haha. Thants pretty presumptive. But anyway, what I meant was the majority of your $ in LLSNL comes from the fact that so many of your opponents make so many fundmntal errors so often. Not necessarily from you understanding and employing advanced concepts. This is the reason complete 1-dimensional nits can sit in these games and consistently make $. The other players exploit themselves.

That said of course there are things that better players with a stronger grasp of the game can do to augment their winrates. You just have to be careful not to overdo it and get FPSy in wrong spots.

ps aggro confidence has never been my problem

when i sit down at the live table,
my edge is about tree fitty

I don't play much LLSNL anymore, but when the game I'm at breaks I'll sit down if there is a table with a bunch of money at it. I have never played against a LLSNL played that I didn't feel like I had an edge over. If I sat down at a table and didn't feel like I had an edge over the table (or at least a few players) I would find a new table.

yeah, I have a rule for table selection. If I sit down and there are two regs I recognize and think are very good players, I move unless there is some serious dead money. Not that I think I'm super great or anything, but I can find a better table.

While i agree im never be teacher or tutor, im too aggressive amd i expect people to want to learn like i do. If someone fails to understand even after i go to the effort to think out and explain my thought process step-by-step and they just look at me blankly it really frustrates me.

You definately have a grudge because i showed your donk logic in another thread. I challenge you to find a strategy post where i dont explain the reason for my answer. Thoroughness is my weakness and is the reason why my posts are always so long. I approach every angle and try to explain. Thats where my bet-raise/call/fold posts come from. This poker thing really is pretty easy, you have three options, if you can eliminate two of them quickly then youv gotten your answer.

The fish at LLSNl are fish because they eliminate folding, raising and betting options straight away for no good reason and just call all the time.

The fish in LLSNL at 2p2 do the same thing and i try and show that to them.

Pretty much when you start asking yourself exactly 'WHY?!' before you do EVERYTHING, you will not only be a better poker player.but a better person.

I like this.

That's nice - still think you're FOS tho.

This thread has been hijacked already, so I'll just add to the hijacking.

MarLoL is a solid poster. His responses are well thought out, however he does come off as being very harsh. I guess it's just b/c he strongly believes in what he has to say. The fact of the matter is, most of what he has to say is usually spot on.

If you think he's annoying and a know-it-all, that's one thing. To say he's FOS is just not the case at all. He's a useful resource to this forum. Stop acting like a 4th grader.

Learning from 2+2 most certainly gives people an edge over those who don't. Having played on a few occasions live myself I've been astonished at the level of bad play compared with uNL.

The only reason I've realised it's so bad is because of what I've learned from posting hands in the uNL FR forum and having my ass kicked by people who I have much respect for and not just for their strategy advice but thier patience with people like me who have so many fundamental flaws in their game.

In my own experience as a modest winning player over 250,000 hands online. I estimate that 90% of the people I've met live wouldn't have much of a chance of beating 10nl online and most definately not against uNL FR'ers who make an effort and post hands on 2+2 to be critqued.

Nobody becomes a good, much less great, player in 4 or 5 months even if it is a 100% effort.