2/2 casino.

V, 40s white, glasses. has opened no hands, except for AA which he opened and won against KK for a huge pot and AK which he checked down after he missed. Only 3bet so far was with AA. Limped a few times in position. Really bad sizing wise, and probably the tightest player in the casino. In all sessions (>15) I have only seen him 3bet AKs, AA or KK. QQ he usually flats. 700

Hero, white late 20s, beard. playing fairly aggressive because the table gives up so much post, yet only showed down monsters. 600.

History hand: Hero overlimped T8 in CO and V overlimped in BTN. 6 way, Flop J92, somebody donked out, somenody else called and Hero raised pretty big, V called. At this point Hero put V on at least J9. Turn 2, Hero checks, V bets 1/10 pot, Hero calls. River 8 checks through and V has J9.

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OTH

Hero KK 12 CO, V 30 BTN, Hero???

As I said V is extremely tight. Should Hero be 4 bet folding here? V is definitely too scared to flat AA, therefore Hero assumed that a smallish 4bet would mean Hero is far ahead of AK (and the occasional QQ, albeit very unlikely) or very far behind when raised.

How do you guys deal with 3bets from extremely tight players when youa re at the top of your range?

Still 4betting, I'd probably make it around 70-80 try and make it look like a steal. If I face a 5bet I would consider folding against this villain given stacks, image and meta.

You have a strong read on this guy. Its hard to believe that he actually 3bets this tight but I know the kind of player you're talking about.

Go with your read and flat w/ KK. You have no Ace blockers, so with your read in combination with two Ks already out the chance he has AA goes way up. Don't get in trouble if the flop comes 9hi. If the flop comes rags and it goes check check then you know you're good.

Grunch: With a nit-tight V and 300BB deep, I call to set-mine here. With a more normally tight V, I'd 4-bet/fold at these stacks, but this guy...

I'm assuming he can't fold AA on a K-high board, so our IOs should be huge. I'm also assuming that his AKs range will check it down if he misses, bet if he hits an A (which we can fold to) or a K (which we can likely get a bunch out of him with, as he'll often think you're chopping).

Given your read you should probably be calling to set mine.

The only way this is not true is if you doubt your read.

No matter who is 3-betting you'll never know for sure he's got AA. Never.

So, you got to 4bet and reevaluate. If you fold KK to a 3bet you may as well STOP playing poker. How can you read him for AA/KK only on his 3bet That cannot be 100% and you will be wrong assuming that.

Call and see a flop. A tricky villain could make your life help by flatting your 4bet and having you barel off into him.

with KK? ... ^ ..

4bet preflop, reevaluate if he 5bet, if your 4bet stands see the flop. That's the sequence of events. Calling 3bet and see the flop is a very weak play. If we play KK in a defensive manner rather than offensive then our hand playing is basically really weak which breads an entirely weak overall game plan. Calling with KK a 3bet pre guaranty the lowest earn possible for the hand.

I'd rather do this w/ AK.

Never folding of course, just like I would never fold 66 here. Pretty sure we'd all rather have 66 here anyways. It would make playing postflop so much easier.

4bet and evaluating is hilariously bad and just clicking buttons. Reraising assumes we can get called by worse, but we have a read V flats QQ pre. I'm not the type to 4bet/eval vs a range of AK, KK and AA...especially when I have KK which blocks AK and KK. I like money.

Only option is to call. The good thing is that V seems to be a weak postflop player (betting 1/10 pot OTT with top two and checking riv). That means we can easily fold if he starts bombing the pot or we can call super cheap bets and even get some free streets on the way to showdown.

Say we do that and he 5bets. What now? What are we evaluating? Are we shoving? That seems suicidal. Are we calling? We didn't want to call the 3bet so how do we call the 5bet when his narrow 3bet range is even narrower?

That leaves 4bet/folding KK pre, which is lighting money on fire and denies us a chance to set mine for cheap and stack V for a lot.

We never "set mine with KK". That is a horrible play. Set mining is for 22,33,44,55,66,77,88 ..., 99+ could give us an over-pair but to set mine with KK is out of question. That is a very very very weak play. Most beginners and weak players do call 3bet and try to flop a set. AA, KK, AK and QQ are the most strongest preflop hands. We don't look to flop sets with such hands.

You are incredibly dense or the best troll ever.

Yes, I understand this concept. No one here is advocating set mining with KK as a standard play. Against all other opponents, everyone here would 4bet. However, let me try to break down the situation at hand.

1. We're up against an uber nit
2. We know he flats QQ pre
3. We have a read his 3bet range is AK, KK, AA
4. Our KK blocks/reduces his combos of AK and KK

So my questions now are:

1. Why would we want to 4bet vs this 3bet range?
2. What worse hands will call?
3. What will we do if we get 5bet?

I'd love to hear your answers, and not just a repeat that setmining KK is very weak.

I believe flatting against such an opponent would have been better, because he is tight bad and never good enough to built a big pot vs us with better hand unless we get super coolered with set over set.
I have never seen him bluff or anything so if he checks back a flop we should basically always be good and far ahead.

I just call in position - it is a tad tricky but has merits. He also won't put us on such a strong hand.

If he folds he probably had QQ or JJ.

Only option is to call. The good thing is that V seems to be a weak postflop player (betting 1/10 pot OTT with top two and checking riv). That means we can easily fold if he starts bombing the pot or we can call super cheap bets and even get some free streets on the way to showdown.[/QUOTE]

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