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109s vs loose aggro, best line for getting it in 109s vs loose aggro, best line for getting it in

11-23-2012 , 01:19 PM
Table is fairly weak, and no one really wants to get too involved with the villain, because they all seemed scared of playing against him.

I bought in for 150 and now I'm up to 320 haven't shown down a hand yet, and the villain def notices this.

Villain is limping 40%+ pots pre flop, and raising 15% of the rest to 6$ regardless of position, and sometimes makes it 12$, I suspect with some better holdings, but he hasn't shown so I can't confirm.
Also, he bets out into multi way pots very often for very small 1/3 - 1/6 psb on the flop and people rarely call him. 3 times he's gotten calls, one time it was heads up, he bet the turn, and got a fold, 2 other times it was still multi way, he checked the turn, and fired out on the river, and the other time he checked the turn, and folded when bet into on the river.

Hero (287$) limps in MP+1 with 10h9h
Villain (~500?) raises to 13$
Folds to hero who calls

Flop (26$) 10 9 2
Hero checks, Villain bets 22$, hero calls

Turn (68$) 3
Hero checks, Villain bets 55$
Hero?

Edit: removed a lot of my thoughts, I'll respond with them later if discussion warrants.

Last edited by shadowdodger; 11-23-2012 at 01:20 PM. Reason: Editted for lenght
109s vs loose aggro, best line for getting it in Quote
11-23-2012 , 01:23 PM
Fold pre, raise flop, raise turn.
109s vs loose aggro, best line for getting it in Quote
11-23-2012 , 01:31 PM
What he said.
109s vs loose aggro, best line for getting it in Quote
11-23-2012 , 01:35 PM
Against loose aggro, not sure why we would want to raise with hands as strong as 2p.

Just call again on the turn.
109s vs loose aggro, best line for getting it in Quote
11-23-2012 , 01:38 PM
No way I'm folding pre with a table as described, if anything I like a raise over a l/c pf.

But since we limped then called, I'm much happier to c/c flop and c/r turn. No need to get crazy on the flop, not worried about much. On the turn we should be charging A/Kc draws and trying to get the money in for a brick river shove.
109s vs loose aggro, best line for getting it in Quote
11-23-2012 , 01:43 PM
Definitely not a fan of CR'sing turn.

Too little information and doubt we are good here most of times when all of the money go in.
109s vs loose aggro, best line for getting it in Quote
11-23-2012 , 01:50 PM
I disagree, we have limited information that leads us to believe that V is strong in this case, both pre/post flop.

From OP's description, V will raise pf more with bigger holdings (we think) and will donk small post flop into multiple players, without showing down. Villian has raised larger than normal, and now donks more than normal on the flop AND the turn.

I range V with pocket pairs 88+, suited broadways, and the like.

Perhaps c/r is a little adventurous, do you think we would rather donk b/f on the turn after a c/c on the flop? Shows appropriate strength, and I would feel comfortable folding to a shove over the top by said V.

I really DON'T like c/c on the turn, too many draws, and I think this is a great spot to take the initiative for the river.
109s vs loose aggro, best line for getting it in Quote
11-23-2012 , 01:53 PM
dont mind the limp/call pre...although i like it alil more when we have about a 200BB stack.
I am def check/calling flop and check raising turn to set up a river shove if it is not a club and we do not get counterfeited.
We have 240 behind after he fires 55$. Why not check.raise to like $165; this makes a river shove of 80$ SUPER easy to call for JJ+...hell, he might even spazz and shove the turn. If this is the case we have to look at his history with nutted hands. He could have flushed...do we remember any showdowns when he was super strong? how did he play it?
If he folds, he pick up a decent pot OOP with a hidden hand, and if he calls with JJ+ or AK with a club, we are a 4:1 favorite in both situations.
109s vs loose aggro, best line for getting it in Quote
11-23-2012 , 01:58 PM
Edit
109s vs loose aggro, best line for getting it in Quote
11-23-2012 , 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Dwans Son
Fold pre, raise flop, raise turn.
Sorry, misread turn. Thought it put 2 flush draws (rather than completing a flush). Call turn but I'm raising flop anyways and am being called/raised by a lot of hands that 10-9 beats.
109s vs loose aggro, best line for getting it in Quote
11-23-2012 , 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwolfe
I disagree, we have limited information that leads us to believe that V is strong in this case, both pre/post flop.
How? Villain has shown standard traits of a LAG at a tight table.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nwolfe
From OP's description, V will raise pf more with bigger holdings (we think) and will donk small post flop into multiple players, without showing down. Villian has raised larger than normal, and now donks more than normal on the flop AND the turn.

I range V with pocket pairs 88+, suited broadways, and the like.
If so, CR'ing here is horrible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nwolfe
Perhaps c/r is a little adventurous, do you think we would rather donk b/f on the turn after a c/c on the flop? Shows appropriate strength, and I would feel comfortable folding to a shove over the top by said V.
No, this type of villain expects you to show aggression with strong hands and therefore by raising, you are narrowing down your range considerably.
109s vs loose aggro, best line for getting it in Quote
11-23-2012 , 03:03 PM
I just don't see us being SO far ahead that we can safely c/c three streets with a wet board and expect to be good most of the time.

If we c/c the turn, are we then c/r blank rivers? What do we do if the board completes one of the obvious draws (either straight or 4-flush). Are we then ready to c/f just because we essentially have no idea where we're at? Are we c/f if the board pairs as well?

I'm curious as to your range of v here that would make it profitable for us to c/c 2 streets and be ahead on the river. After raising pf, I think we can safely exclude lower 2p, but not sets, although 99 and 1010 are unlikely, but possible. All sets, overpairs, nfd would play this hand similarly I feel. The only things we're comfortably ahead of here are hands like A10s, A9s, pairs JJ-AA without club, and naked open Enders, which seems generous. Of course air is a real possibility, but that doesn't seem likely here.

Last edited by nwolfe; 11-23-2012 at 03:05 PM. Reason: Phones are lame
109s vs loose aggro, best line for getting it in Quote
11-23-2012 , 04:05 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we are almost 65% to win vs JJ+ with a club, ya?
5 cards to make a better two pair, and 8 cards to make the flush? (1 gives me a full house.)
And we're almost an 82% favorite over two high cards with a club where he's only got 8 outs against us.
If he's got QJ with a club, he's got 6 straight out, and 8 club outs, so again, we're almost 65% to win.

So we're in decent shape vs all of his range that isn't already a made flush, which I just don't really see as very common, but still possible.
I don't really want to see any river card here, since I can't really like any face card, I hate any club, and there's a small chance that an 8 gives him a straight (although, I'd likely stack off on a non club 8.)

As it played out, I tanked for like 1 minute, then check shoved.
Opinions?
109s vs loose aggro, best line for getting it in Quote
11-23-2012 , 05:22 PM
dude is loose passive, not loose aggro

raise pre, bet/raise flop, bet/raise/push turn, and don't let a loose passive player control your table

as played, yeah, shove the turn. don't **** around when half the deck is a scare card to you or him.
109s vs loose aggro, best line for getting it in Quote
11-23-2012 , 05:31 PM
How do you read it as passive?
109s vs loose aggro, best line for getting it in Quote
11-23-2012 , 05:45 PM
With this guy behind us, I don't think we can limp in preflop with speculative hands. I'd also fold preflop to the raise. Stacks are decent but we're OOP to a tricky guy postflop.

Omg, check/raise the flop big, imo. Board is extremely drawy so he could put us on one / be on one himself. Let's get some real money in before half the deck kills our action. I'd check/raise to $90ish, which offers poor 2:1 odds plus sets up a shove on the turn.

Kinda in a sucky spot on the turn. He looks like he's still capable of a barrelling air or perhaps overpair + draw. Time to grit our teeth and call down?

GcluelessNLnoobG
109s vs loose aggro, best line for getting it in Quote
11-23-2012 , 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaUlater
How do you read it as passive?
how is 55/15 that bets 1/3 to 1/6th the pot anything but the very definition of loose/passive?

he's just a loose/passive fish that's on a small heater.
109s vs loose aggro, best line for getting it in Quote
11-23-2012 , 06:03 PM
Ya you're right. I'll look at it later when I am not drunk.
109s vs loose aggro, best line for getting it in Quote

      
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