I would never do this...without saying "fold" first. Either table your hand for the whole table to see and try to get a read off villain (don't recommend this either), or verbally fold b4 showing anyone anything.

Seriously I would call the floor and have a huge problem with you showing your hand to anyone not involved and them giving you any reaction at all...him actually saying something would push me over the limit. Really, really bad.

What we've learned from this hand:

1) most itt don't understand equity vs. range analysis. I suggest more people take "ohsnapzbrah's" line of thinking...even though he got to a different conclusion with his tight assigned range. Even with the nittiest of ranges this is a neutral call/fold.

Playing guessing games with what he would overshove with is lol.

2) don't singularly show your cards to players not in the hand if your intention is to keep the hand live. I could have the nut flush and still be mad here if I was villain, I seriously just don't think that's ethical in the game. Friendly home game or whatever different story.

3) it sucks getting sucked out on for a 1000bb pot with a naked flush draw. Sorry man.

/thread

The person I showed my hand to was sitting in the 2 seat I believe and I was in the 7 or 8. When I showed my hand, everyone on that table saw it. Wasn't like I hid it and showed the guy next to me. I was trying to get anyones reaction. Perhaps they played with the guy and knew that would be an instant call. Making that sick

"o_o omg he hasn't called" sort of face. Nothing illegal occurred, I did nothing to put my hand in a spot to get killed. If he felt the need to call the floor on someone maybe it should have been the guy who said something. All conversation after his all in bet, before and after I showed my hand, was to the villain.

And like I said he initially thought I was slow rolling him, never considering folding, my hand. When I explained to him "No sir, I was really thinking of a way I could fold this hand" he smiled and said "my apologies" and hit a river on me. So regardless - he was fine with what I did and fine with the outcome.

Justice IMO

how is him flatting with 99s when there is an open from mp and you calling otb lead you to believe that he could potentially flat with QQs-AAs? pretty illogical and your misapplying the info you are gathering from other opponents.

his flat from the sb and the passivity of how he played his flopped boat show that he is extremely passive. so when a passive player over bet ships a monotone flop, it is never a snap call bc you think he is "adjusting" to your laggy image.

and its a little ridiculous that you are arguing against any advice that is not consistent with the most optimal way to have played this hand. obviously you know results so its easy for you, but based on the info you provided it is not clear at all that this opponent would flat with KKs pre then overbet ship otf on a monotone board.

Poker is a hustle.

I think minimals was smart to try to get a live tell from Villain when the decision was so big.

There is almost no downside to trying these kinds of antics as long as the house rules allow it. The potential upside of picking up a reliable live tell when the pot is so huge makes this very ++++++EV.

Stupid thread. OP withholds very critical LOL live read info and asks for "thoughts".

<---- BBV is that way

Maybe I'm reading this wrong. But it sounds like your strategy in showing your hand is to get affirmation from someone who had played a previous hand with villain and could guide you to fold or call? Ever hear of the 'one player per hand' rule? Sounds like you get away with breaking the rules and you don't see it that way. I do. I see it as cheating.

LLOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOLLLLL this is the sickest level iv ever read

this.

this is nearly always a small flush

so Lynell is white, right?

Op, put this in the brags section next time. You make a new account a few hours ago and you have like 30+ posts in here stubborn as a mule. Just because the majority disagree with you I don't know what the point of rambling on about this is for? You also withhold information about the table angle of course we do not know this. Just move on

Should have folded. You lost bro.

not sure what the hell the point of this thread is when you change the read as you post the results.

given the stupid ass read you gave in the OP, where he doesn't raise 99, calling is 100% ****ing ******ed. given the new read you suddenly come up with in the results, calling is 100% fine.

we can only go with the reads you give, we're not in the hand with you. suddenly adding information later and pretending you're some sort of genius is really, really lame.

Has anyone ever considered that villain flatted 99 to get an overcall and not because he's afraid of a better boat...?

I agree people with people angry u didn't give all the Info but I am not mad at people showing cards. That happens in every cardroom I play in and no one ever cares. Maybe it's different in other states. I play mainly in Cali and vegas.

tough spot, these come up all the time when you has a loose image. t reqlly changes the percentage when your loose. People stack off to you so light its crazy. I can't say if woulda folded there or not. I will say when it comes to having a lag image and trying to get advice from people on 2+2 its tough, they are pretty clueless to playing with a loose image.

fold river.

Lol, really?

First things first, having a loose image and a lag image are entirely different.

Do you know what it is to have a true lag image? bc this sounds like te type of thing someone would say to level themselves into calling down extremely light. Since the majority of your opponents adjust more to whether you are winning or losing rather than your playing style, I wouldn't be to quick to call out 2+2 for having no idea how to adjust with a lag image.

But continue to use your lag image to call down your opponents extremely light. This isn't exploitable at all.

I think op's analysis makes more sense then a lot of the follow up.

I think this is a smaller set way more often then the nuts or even a small flush.

He get's almost no value from anything. The only hands that call this size raise is nut flushes and top set some of the time. It puts so much pressure on every made hand.

No matter what level he's thinking on, making an almost uncallable bet doesn't make sense with any hand hero is behind.

he expects the pre flop raiser to bet when checked to. Hero's bet certainly doesn't signal strength or atleast doesn't guarantee it. I would expect to see smaller sets here a lot. Followed by AhTx.

In saying that I don't know if I would make this call, even though I believe it certainly should be a call. This line is almost never a flush imo.

Although we both believe that Villain is trying to protect his hand by smashing a fly with a bookcase, you believe he's protecting a smaller set, and I believe he's protecting a non-nut flush. Unless I'm missing something basic, I don't see how one can logically deduce one type of hand over another, especially given the minimal information we have about his playing tendencies.

Now have read the second part of thread.

Wow, I would never have put him on an over pair w/ a heart. I would have thought that would make up a fraction of his range. Definitely thought this was a strong made hand after the flop.

As to the showing cards thing. Who cares. I wouldn't do it, but if it's aloud fine. Do whatever you can, with in the rules, to win. It's not anyone's job to play the moral police.

That said, getting a super reliable live read like that does change the hand. Before, even though I thought it was a call, it was one that I admitted I'd have a real hard time making.

With something like this it makes this a much easier decision. So it does change things.

Also when you decide "your done" for the day, just muck your cards with out looking. For whatever reason those last few hands or hand always seems to result in pure pain. I think we all learn this the hard way.

I know its bad but the last hand thing would way heavily on my decision. Your up $1400. That's a good day. Your on your way out the door. Me personally, it wouldn't hurt me to much if I folded and villain turned over a hand I was beating, compared to calling and loosing. Even if I made the right decision.

The reason was because mentally, I was done. It changes everything. The money in front of me is no longer chips, it's MY money. $1000 in variance is a good amount in 1/2 at any point. But once I've already decided I'm walking out the door w/ a stack, losing it is now unacceptable.

It's the mental aspect to me. I've already made the transition from viewing money as chips back into money. Once I've done that, it's time to leave immediately.

you make a good point. I just feel like the thinking of most villains would be, I've made a flush I want to get paid. Where as w/ a small set its more, I probably have the best hand, if you want to draw and beat me your going to have to pay the max.

I'm not saying this is sound by any stretch of the imagination. I'm basing it on experience.

Think about how many times you've seen someone flop a flush and fold if the board bricks out? Almost never. People, (not that its usually wrong) never fold flopped flushes. I could see a check/raise for sure, just not for 500bb's. I just think this over bet would be made w/ sets more often then flushes. It's more of a scared/protection thing then anything else.

My point is most villains treat any flopped flush as the nuts. And most villains don't jam 500bb's over a 30bb c bet with the nuts. It would be rare line to see imo.

Result?

He lost to KK with the Kh when a heart fell on the river.

First, though, he colluded with the rest of the table about whether or not he should call, totally disregarding the 'one player per hand' rule.