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Old 08-23-2017, 12:00 PM   #1
Aces_Full_47
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Talking $10-$25 "absolute last" Button straddle at 1/2/5 game

Apologies if this is the wrong forum, but it seemed like a LLSNL strategy question

I play at a 1/2/5 game that becomes ultra deep within a few hours due to extremely loose play, table-max buy-ins, and deep pockets. Average stack at about the 3-4 hour mark is $1,000, give or take a few hundred. It's not unusual for multiple players to exceed $2-3k on any given night. I've seen one player who could charitably be called a whale run like the gods and run up an $11k stack in 12 hours.

The game allows button straddles of anywhere from $10 to $25 (the blinds are $1 / $2, and it's $5 to limp in). What's more, if the player on the button straddles, they have absolute last. For example:

HJ limps in for $5
CU raises to $35

It would skip the button player and go straight to the small blind. Let's say this then happens:

BB calls the $35
HJ raises to $100
CU calls

It would then be on the BB to act, not the button.

Further, this game is extremely loose and overall quite bad. The few competent players are easy enough to avoid, and there is little to no recognition of things like opening ranges changing based on position. An average flop is going to be 3-4 players and in the $100 neighborhood.

I am working to shift from ABC/fundamentals to more of a GTO approach, but remaining quite tight given the table dynamics. Regular players there know this. That being said, I generally still get a fair amount of action from hands that should not be calling - lot of gamble gamble here!

My question is, should I be straddling for $10 when I'm on the button given the table dynamics and the option of absolute last? Generally these $10 straddles are met with 4+ limpers, so often I'd simply be checking and seeing a flop in position with a random hand. However, raises from the button straddle are almost always met with at least one call, and often more, despite the obvious error in limp-calling there.

It seems like this might be a decent opportunity to be seen as more of an action player at minimum expense, and also might mean big profits if I raise, get called, and flop well. People sometimes won't call down in a $100 pot because "there's not much out there," but ridiculously optimistic/bad plays in $300+ pots are commonplace.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
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Old 08-23-2017, 12:06 PM   #2
Javanewt
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Re: $10-$25 "absolute last" Button straddle at 1/2/5 game

I do not straddle unless it's mandatory or the table has agreed on its own and it's good for the game. IMHO, if you don't have to straddle, don't straddle -- or do it every once in a while to let them know you are not a complete nit
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Old 08-23-2017, 01:05 PM   #3
iraisetoomuch
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Re: $10-$25 "absolute last" Button straddle at 1/2/5 game

Normally a straddle in islotation is -EV. If everyone is doing it then it sort if depends on how people are playing. It might be beneficial it might not be.

What's interesting here is that you get skipped and you get to go last after everyone else. You may see the action unfold very differently and gain significantly more information than you could have otherwise. Hard to say how much that's worth. But almost certainly not worth the $8/hand.
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Old 08-23-2017, 01:10 PM   #4
niceguy22
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Re: $10-$25 "absolute last" Button straddle at 1/2/5 game

The absolute last thing is weird but it's a huge advantage over a regular straddle. This seems more profitable than not straddlong as long as stacks are deep like you say.
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Old 08-23-2017, 01:15 PM   #5
niceguy22
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Re: $10-$25 "absolute last" Button straddle at 1/2/5 game

You get 2 advantages. The regular advantage of button straddle is that stakes are increased when we have best position. This alone makes it close to being a neutral play but probably slightly -ev. The absolute last thing def puts us into +ev territory.
That being said, straddling def favors a good lag rather than a good nit. You'll need to play a lot of mariginal spots in big pots.
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Old 08-23-2017, 01:16 PM   #6
BackDoorFlush
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Re: $10-$25 "absolute last" Button straddle at 1/2/5 game

If the majority of players at your table are straddling, then straddle.
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Old 08-23-2017, 01:20 PM   #7
Avaritia
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Re: $10-$25 "absolute last" Button straddle at 1/2/5 game

This has nothing to do with how many people are straddling. This is a clear as day straddle and sounds really, really bad for the game overall. Is this in the US?
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Old 08-23-2017, 01:29 PM   #8
Koko the munkey
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Re: $10-$25 "absolute last" Button straddle at 1/2/5 game

Would love an invite to get in this game.

I would straddle every button for sure. In this kind of game, nits aren't necessarily invited back. If you are killing this game, which I suspect you are, then straddle. Whales like to play with gamblers, not nits.
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Old 08-23-2017, 01:31 PM   #9
flopturntree
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Re: $10-$25 "absolute last" Button straddle at 1/2/5 game

Yes straddle and look to play more pots in position vs the whales, I like to gamble a little more in these types of games, don't be that one guy that doesn't straddle and only plays AK lol
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Old 08-23-2017, 01:36 PM   #10
Tomark
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Re: $10-$25 "absolute last" Button straddle at 1/2/5 game

This is a slam dunk button straddle situation. I was asking about this in the MGM forums (there was a discussion about button straddles at high stakes), apparently button straddles are EV+ at uncpaped buyin games because of the massive value of position deepstacked. The particular rules here are so unbelievably valuable that you would happily straddle, especially because if you get AA youre scooping a massive pot with a big 3! or 4! pre.
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